Absent or broken pic
Absent or broken pic
obvious ENFP with strong Te
Why do ENTPs and INFPs like to emulate each other? The mystery.
Now that I remember, like a year ago I got the book The Jonh Lennon Letters and his writing made me realize he was ENFP instead of INFP, which was what I was thinking all the time.
Lennon: ENFP. McCartney: ISFP. Harrison: INFJ. Ringo: Never cared about him to do the typing.
McCartney is not ISFP. Their ISFP page is atrocious. Seeing McCartney as an introvert is truely a joke IMO. Have you read the fantasies Lennon wrote? How can that be Se? The way he explores language, use puns, even his witty and sometimes acerbic humour is typically Ne. Ono is not a feeler. Think a bit of her carreer and her work. The fluxus, the happenings, it's conceptual and devoided of the authenticity NF types strive for. I'm sorry but I just don't find any sense in typing lennon ESTP and Ono INFJ. Especially if you type McCartney as an introvert when he was by far the more extroverted of the four.
McCartney is an ISFP. This one I agree with CelebrityTypes. :P <br> @thedude my attitude towards Se doms isn't not what you think it is. I actually admire them and think they are smarter than most people give them credits for, that's why they can look like intutives if they want to. They are very adept at camouflaging their true identity, and susceptible to others' influence and emulate them (something similar to INFJs, but also very different in a fundamental way) That's why I think Yoko is an INFJ, she's the one influencing him in his solo works. From the article from thedailymail, she followed him until he caved, which I found pretty hilarious. <br>Also, @bobnickmad keep going with your insight about Fi.
Lennon's mother was ran over by a drunk police officer who was off-duty at the time. He was raised by his aunt, never knew his father who abandoned him and he only reacquainted with his mother for a short time when he was a teenager before she was killed. He did write about his struggles. Listen to Jealous Guy or How. I mean a guy who writes "How can I have feeling when I don't know if it's a feeling? How can I feel something if I just don't know how to feel?" is being honest with his troubles. All you need is love or Imagine are not about him either, they are very impersonal songs but he could very well be talking to himself, engaging himself to change. In fact most of his post-beatles songs are honest. Listen to The Plastic Ono band album, he's putting his heart out. And it's not like FI users were the only one being able to reflect on their incapacities anyway.
He might have been control by his inner demons. He said that his mother was killed by a drunk driver and he wasn't caught, or was released or something like that, and Lennon poured that rage towards other people.Not necesarly an argument for wounded Fi tough, it could have been simply a rationalization after the fact.Anyway, it's more the fact that he really preachy about those things he himself didn't do.He tolled others to be pacifist, instead of writing about his struggles with not being able to be one.There are a few confessional lyrics (''I was to be cruel to my women, And beat her and kept her from the things that she loved, Man I was mean but I'm changing my scene, And I'm doing the best that I can'') bur overall this kind of honest lyrics don't add up to the more preachy ones he had.Working Class Hero is probably his most Fi sounding song, but that's not to add to the discussion.
Also, a simple thing, Paul and Ringo being ESFPs, don't you think three Se doms would make a different kind of music?
But you're talking as if he (or everyone for that matter) was free to control his actions. If it was that easy, everyone would just live and act accordingly to their belief, and most people (sociopaths aside) would behave in the best way possible. This is not the real world. A man with the best intentions can do a lot of wrong things.
It's not about belief. Lennon never changed his belief. And it's just not true that integrity is only a Fi trait. Ne doms are very prone to change (especially when it comes to ideas). Nobody disputes the fact that Bowie is a Fi user, yet he never had any belief and kept on changing his views on everything. Every type has its own integrity. For Fi doms it may come to authenticity of emotional values but that does not mean they are the only type being faithful to theses values. Keep in mind the auxiliary can be very hard to master (especially when the tertiary is strong, and the assertiveness Lennon displayed in the 70's is very Te IMO) and is the keypoint of the whole personality. There's no way to assess Lennon wasn't sincere, he was a troubled man who struggled with himself most of his life. The fact he acted violently does not make him ESTP (and what does it say about your views on ESTP or Se users?).
The issue is more with the fact that he didn't lived according what he was saying.That is, his stated beliefs and his actions didn't fall in line, which kinda goes against Fi.
What I meant with the Fe/Fi dichotomy in EXXP types is that I found in real life that while ENTPs (and ESTPs too) may outwardly look more cynical towards humanity in general, more individualistic, they will actually care more about their friends whereas ENFPs (and ESFPs too) may pretend to like people, to be concerned by humanity, showing themselves as idealists when in fact they can be very self-centered and egoist. It's more about a whole view on humanity than about being warm with closed ones as I stated before, I found it hard to express this very idea. The same way ENTP may look more pessimist when ENFPs are the ones most likely prone to depression. Somebody who's abusive is abusive regardless of his type. The fact that Lennon wasn't decent does not prove he wasn't an intuitive. I've seen lots of ExFP act violently, lose control (crying like babies for no reason), being incapable of mastering their nerves and frustration. No violence in ENFP? What do you make of Guevara typed ENFP for instance? The ISTJ shadow is the worst when it grips you, IMO. The Beatles are a band. The Lyrics from Paul are way more simple than John's. I don't know how you can listen to Plus, there's something very childish about ENFPs (and even INFPs to some extant) and the way they express their emotions, that is touching. Listen to God, Mother, Working Class Hero and tell me that it's simple. I'll answer that it IS the hardest thing to achieve as an artist and a songwriter.
Yup, something is sure that he doesn't have Fi, as he doesn't stay true to his belief. Our cognitive functions matter because it's our default state of mind. Lennon's complex in life with his parents doesn't make up to all his behaviors either. Would a strong Fi users change into some abusive, violent person just because their parents left them? Fi does what Fi does, even in an unhealthy state. In his case, you can rule out Fi from the possibility.
Sorry *ENxPs not ExTPs.
The articles are not entirely objective obviously, but there are facts to that. Talentless sounds subjective I admit. But what about other lists? Being histrionic and/or acerbic isn't equal to being abusive, and a long list of abusing people around him to boot. I've read that strawberry field, Lucy in the sky, come together, etc. are written when he's heavily under influence of drugs. Ne can be random, but there would be something that connects, the patterns to it, not just throw random words around. Also, I've never seen any xNFPs act remotely as violent as he could. Bitter, jealous, acerbic, histrionic, manipulative they can be, but not aggressive physically. In fact, ExTPs are scared cats because of their inferior Si and very weak Se. I just can't see them become violent, or if it happens, must be in a very very unhealthy ones and severe case of rage, not their normal behaviors. <br> Moreover, I've listened to The Beatles' songs since I was a kid and I always think that the lyrics are mostly very simple (I'm not a native speaker, btw.) and I could learn English pretty easily from them.
John Lennon was the definitely the main talent in the Beatles, whatever type he was.And yeah, there's nothing to prove S over N in that article.The thing is, I don't think being warm around close ones has anything to do with Fe or Fi.Just with being a decent person, which Lennon obviously wasn't. Being faithful to your values on the other hand is indeed more Fi than Fe, and this is a quality he personally didn't possessed.Than again, I'm not sure how Fi manifest in Ne-Te looping ENFPs, does it loose itself on the way?Did Lennon honestly wanted to change himself but he had too much bitterness in him.Or was he simply an hypocrite in his soul, as well as in his actions?
His songwriting is simple? Hum, Strawberry Fields Forever? Can you find more Ne-ish? What you're pointing out is not sensation over intuition at all, it's Fi against Fe. Which has been adressed earlier down this page. While an ENTP might pass as more of an antisocial, he will generally be warmer to his close friends and family, an ENFP would have a more idealistic facade and be self-centered and more egoist with his close ones. Fi auxiliary are known to have anger issues, this is why ENFPs are often linked to histrionic disorders. None of what you say can apply to typing someone. An intuitive can't be violent, selfish etc? Also, Lennon was not such a likeable guy, he had qualities and an undeniable talent. the words of the people who knew him make more sense (His first wife, Cynthia,the other Beatles) than this bitter piece of article, which is not a reliable source. Lennon, talentless? Sure, he's not a freaking genius like Paul McCartney, but talentless? How objective does that sound?
Cited from Listverse: "Lennon was a perfect example of someone who lived by the hypocritical dictum of “do as I say, not as I do.” As his critics sometimes point out, all you have to do is go straight to his songs. The man who sang “imagine no possessions” lived a millionaire’s life in a posh New York hotel. The man who sang “imagine no religion” was obsessed with every spiritual and New Age fad that came his way, including Hindu meditation, the I-Ching, and astrology of all kinds. The man who sang “all you need is love” was a bitter, violent, and angry man who abused his family and friends. The man who praised having “nothing to kill or die for” helped finance and publicize radical groups who extolled the use of violence. Quite literally everything his fans see personified in the icon of John Lennon are ideals the man himself either couldn’t or wouldn’t live up to." <br> <br> Ah..life is a lie. :P Damn you tertiary Fe!
I suggest you guys read the articles. Here's another one: http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-lennon/ <br>Initially, I thought he's an intuitive too, and his quotes may point to that. But his actions speak otherwise. Come to think of it, his song writing is pretty simple, in lyrics and music-wise, which is unlikely for xNFP or any intuitives. He seemed like an idol for a peace-loving hippies, but it's possible that he was just ridding on the waves of the 60's era.
Lenon is an obvious Intuitive. Listening to him in interviews, he makes connections in a intuitive way. Also, this a guy who said that as a young boy he liked to create imaginary worlds in his mind after the model of Lewis Carrol, and explore ''the affective corners of his mind''.One of his quotes even says that he believes in dragons, because who says dreams aren't real just because they are in your mind?How more NP than that do you want? He's too imposing in interviews to be INP tough, INPs words can be blunt and cut deep, but their lack that effective imposing demeanor that Lennon displayed.When it comes to ENP I think he was an unhealthy one in a loop, considering his behavior.I assume Ne-Te would make more sense, because in his Beatles period he didn't have that histrionic and attention seeking attitude that Ne-Fe looping ENFPs have, but rather a very aggressive 'bad-boy' thing to him that unhealthy EFPs can have.Whatever he was, he was NP for sure. ESTP is ridiculous for a guy who actively valued imagination over reality (''reality leaves a lot to the imagination'').
No, just no. Ono as INFJ? No, sorry can't see that. I thought of Lennon as a Ti-dom with inferior feeling at some point, but I came to the conclusion that the majority was right here, he was most probably a Ne dom. randomguy confirmed what I thought, so I settled on ENFP over ENTP.
Ok. I think I'm settled with Lennon as an ESTP and Yoko as an INFJ. Makes sense now.
He's a tough cookie. He's too cold to be FP and too temperamental to be TP. But I don't think he's an extrovert. If I don't know a real INTPs I would say INTP, but NTPs are pretty warm in real life. So no idea, lol.
He's a classic example of a counterphobic 6.
Can he be enneagram 8? Although it's rare but there is xNFP with enneagram 8. 8w7, Sx/Sp?
No definitely not a 5. I don't know where that stems from.
Same thing as Bowie as typing goes for me. He poses as an idealist while being a tough selfish guy in real life, sometimes even capricious. Great post randomguy. I'll go with ENFP. But is he really a 5?
He has no Fe whatsoever, so I don't understand ENTP votes. Usually Fe users, even on lower stack, are fiercely protective of their circle of friends and family, even compromise their logical accuracy to meet these people halfway (I've seen this trait in many ENTPs and ESTPs). But John Lennon is 'idealistically' nice to people as a whole (the concept of love for humanity, peace on earth, etc), but not necessary nice to people close to him, which I found a striking Fi trait. So he's either INFP or ENFP, but I voted ENFP because I found his Te snaps are stronger than that of INFPs.
I think he's an introvert who tries to embody this persona. He just got tired of it all at the end. Ne-Te loop? An INFP could not do so with Fi-Te grip? I think INFP's may have a very aggressive Fi, especially if going through tense situations making them pull over Te.
What happened to Lennon was this, he went through several cycles of his personality as a child to read a lot, live in their abstract world and be quite repressed by his relatives, he had not a shred of self-confidence, with time Lennon was already sick of it and decided to change, and so took the bad boy personality over time he became sick again and joined the peace and love doing like a synthesis of his personality. But even so, it has always been INFP, what has changed is just their wants and desires.
Lennon is a classic example of INFP confident he had nothing extro himself spoke that this was just a cover, and that during his term peace and love he had had enough of everything.
That's what I thought, but he is too assertive an says too much bullshit to be INTP in my opinion. His agressivity may look like inferior Fe, he definitely has a problem with his feeling function whatever his type is. But ENxP can be quiet and reserved, and not very outgoing. I know several ENTPs who may pass as introverted.
If you watch any documentary on The Beatles history you'll find out how introverted he was, he would stay at his house reading without interacting with any person for weeks. INTP in my opinion, I see him more as a Ti dom than an Fi dom, but definitely not extroverted
ti becaue he has stated that the disicples have twisted is words and is looking for the ource of the problem. fe externalizing his morals. Ni because of how he stated that all religions are teahing the same thing, but is miundertood. I say either xstp or xnfj . I would say estp
Changed my vote to ENFP. This isn't my rationale, but out of the NP's, INTP makes the least sense.
He's a clear ENFP who has practically no Fe, and he's also an obvious Ne dom.
Infp pplz obviously111!!!!! Da man don't speak
Lennon is sheer and unmistakable Fi type and since most agree he is an Ne dom, ENFP seems like a good choice. As for him being a sarcastic smartass, that isn't exclusive to T types.
Well, If he's an ENFP or INFP, it's surely not easy to see his Te, but rather his Ne or Fi, but if he's ENTP or INTP, then his Ti must be easy to see. Can you give an example of him using Ti? This is out of my curiosity why some people would see Ti in him. Thanks.
In response to the "Why Fe > Fi?" question, I ask "Why Te > Ti?"
Typer: good question. He exhibits clear Fi imo.
Why Fe > Fi?
Also, @impeccable has a good point about him showing a lot of Fi. I might as well reserve the initial assumption of him being an ENFP.
After a long pondering, I think he's probably xNTP highly influenced by NF era (the '60s). Yoko is probably one of his huge influence in this too. I'm still uncertain if he's an INTP or ENTP, though.
Ya he's ENTP or INTP. I find it hard to believe an F type, especially INFP would be as domineering, arrogant and abusive as he was. People listen to imagine and assume he must have been an NF but if you truly analyze his personality I think he seems more xNTP.
I voted INTP. This split in vote is quite ridiculous, he's something between ENTP and INFP. He was INTP. He was a schizoïd and often an insensitive asshole. Being Sx/So he can look E or F, but he was nothing of that.
Even if you discard all the crudeness in his behavior, according the man himself, he aspired for a world of peace and idealism, accepted all religions as true albeit tarnished with time etc. I can see clear Ne-Fi as well Te aggressiveness to him which makes a good case for ENFP.
ENTPs aren't aggressive, they engage in debates yes, in a Socratic manner however. ENFPs are more in your face kind of aggressive especially with regards to their ideals, ENTPs mostly play devil's advocate instead. Non-conformism can take many shapes and forms and can be associated with more than one types but if one cognitive function is especially about non-conformity, uniqueness and individuality its Fi, which Lennon shows alot.
In general, ENTP would be more aggressive than ENFP but I guess you can have some rare cases where it isn't the case. But there isn't anything compelling against ENTP, which happens to make the most sense with his showy nonconformism. That's just so not INFP though.
I don't see how is he not an Fi type as opposed to Fe. ENFP is more like it. ENFPs with Te are more aggressive than ENTPs.
Well he's definitely not an INFP. I personally have trouble seeing anything but ENTP.
Now the more I read his quotes, the more I believe him to be more of an INFP now. His Fi was just too strong.
Being mean to women doesn't rule him out for being an NF though. One thing for sure is he has a huge ego, but it's possible to anyone in his position is his era, when all women just chased after him. IMO He was just bratty. His quotes also reflects he has a lot of Fi such as: "You don't need anybody to tell you who you are or what you are. You are what you are!" "I'm not going to change the way I look or the way I feel to conform to anything. I've always been a freak. So I've been a freak all my life and I have to live with that, you know. I'm one of those people." "Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." Also the evidence he's more of a feeler than thinker: "If someone thinks that love and peace is a cliche that must have been left behind in the Sixties, that's his problem. Love and peace are eternal." "If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace." "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now?"
his song lay have "sound" NF, bu his lyfestyle was T. He was obnoxious and domeenering with women. Plus, he was a schizoid. I think he was INTP.
I voted ENFP. I'm not absolutely sure but I think he's not NT. His songs are very idealistic. "All you need is love" "Imagine" "Woman" "Give peace a chance" The list goes on. Still, looking through his interviews I think he's more Ne-dominant than Fi. He has very quick wit, and can come off as random at times. He's quite and ass but any type that is raised in unhealthy environment can be like that too. Anyway his pattern of speech, being too nonchalant to be an INFP, and thinking is more likely Ne dominant. I think he's enneagram 5 though, which is unusual for ENFPs that's why he could seem like an NT.
Yeah, I'm not sure if he was introverted or extroverted on further study. But he was definitely xNTP, not an F.
he was INTP
The only reason people here might think he is an INFP is because of Celebritytypes..
Any type can be abusive. These generalizations are absurd.
3..an INFP would never be abusive towards people.. He is probably an ENTP
Night, let me use your logic: The way he acted in school ..someone who challenges the rules .. ENTP.
The way he acted in school ..makes me think he was an ISTP ..someone who challenges the rules ..
The dude was abusive. Does not sound like an ENTP or an INFP ..more like ENTJ
Agreed with Ne-Dom but there is a sh*t load of Fi in there. ENTP? I think not. ENFP. Yes..!
I don't know why so many people think he's INFP. Fi and Ne are among his functions, yes but I just can't identify with him. Jim Morrison yes, Kurt Cobain maybe, but John Lennon? No.
Ne dom seems obvious. No way he is INFP.
But overall I have to say ENTP. His wit and total lack of order, his constant shifting of identity, his sarcastic humor. Bigger than Jesus could have as easily been ENTP. Makes him more of a contrast to Paul, who was definitely definitely definitely SFJ and it astounds me that anyone would think he was any kind of P.
He did declare himself "Bigger than Jesus." That seems pretty ENTJ to me.
ENTx certainly. Part of me thinks he may have actually been ENTJ, given how much of a controlling, agressive dick he could be. The way he made fun of Brian Epstein for being a "fag Jew" seems pretty Eric Cartman as well.,
ENTP 8w7 Sx/Sp, no question. It's shocking how very few people on here agree with me on ENTP for him. I can't see any other type, personally.
Défintivement Ne, avec un gros problème de Fe. On peut voir ses paroles sur l'amour comme étant idéalisées, et dans les morceaux plus personnels, minimalistes (pas les hymnes à tendance universalisante) c'est clairement cette fonction sentiment qui l'handicape: "How can I have feeling when I don't know if it's a feeling? How can I feel something if I just don't know how to feel?". Pas très INFP, je trouve. Après, déterminer s'il est introverti ou extraverti est assez délicat. J'ai envie de dire INTP, car au fond il a toujours été entourré par les mêmes personnes, en nombre assez limité avec un côté clan, mais il y a un versant agressif dans sa personalité et un besoin de confronter ses idées (idéaux) au monde qui fait plus ENTP.