Absent or broken pic
Absent or broken pic
He also wrote a song about Introverted Intuition. "Waiting for the gift of Ni...": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3L58KyHC_M
@bobnickmad Yay. I'm glad Bowie is finally getting validation as an INFJ.
Ignore my comments below saying Peter Gabriel is ENFP because he's also INFJ. I changed my vote that very same day; I'm that fast.
He talks about how his stage persona is a construct that doesn't really reflect who he actually is.
Everyones an INFJ! why not just david bowie? Donald Trump is an INFJ!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwTFW4kfHl4 This interview is really revealing about what Idlebody talked about. Change my vote to INFJ.
This will be my last comment on Bowie's type. I see that some people still believe he's 3w4 over 4w3, so I'll make my case for 4w3. David had a lot of shame related to being "himself", he didn't think he was that particularly interesting nor that he had social savvy, so he felt he needed to create characters and hide himself in them. "I think my problem used to be that I was always shy and fairly awkward in social situations," Bowie says. "All through my youth, I would use bravado and device – costume and flamboyant behavior – in a desperate attempt to not be iced out of everything." When his music career took off, he resorted to using drugs and alcohol as a crutch to deal with that shyness and social anxiety. "I was a kid that loved being in my room reading books and entertaining ideas," Bowie recalls. Until he met Iman, Bowie suffered from terrible shyness since childhood. "I lived a lot in my imagination. It was a real effort to become a social animal. That's why I loved drugs so much. On drugs, once you started talking you never stopped - whether there was anybody with you or not!"
It looks like idlebody is a woman XD Erase and rewind, sowwy XD
So I was the first to defy everyone here saying Bowie was INFJ and now we see Scotty drooling all over idlebody's profile page. But no, I'm always the retard according to him. "The Power of Ni"? More like the power of cock!, misogynistic bitch! @scotty
Wow. Someone hacked into my account and posted the below message. I don't know who's trolling, but I would never say something like that, especially not about David Bowie.
David bowie looks like a fucking retard
"In the course of their lives, Fours may try several different identities on for size, basing them on styles, preferences, or qualities they find attractive in others. But underneath the surface, they still feel uncertain about who they really are. The problem is that they base their identity largely on their feelings which are ever-changing."
@Schmendrick You mentioned that when Bowie created Blackstar at the end of his life when his functions were all developed... But what about Bob Dylan? Bob Dylan is still writing straightforward Fi-Se-Ni songs. His songs are nowhere close to the cryptic nature of Bowie's catalog of music. Back in the early 1970s before Ziggy Stardust, Bowie wrote the Ni-Ti song "Quicksand" on Hunky Dory. He was about 24 years old when he wrote it. According to Tony Visconti, Bowie also wrote this song when he was only 16, then recorded a demo for it in the early 70s. He later adapted this into It's No Game on Scary Monsters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOBQBbqSs1g
Let's Dance was Bowie's most commercially successful album, but he regards it as his worst album. He felt a lot of contempt towards the massive audience that Let's Dance brought to him. He said this about the album: "I remember looking out over these waves of people [who were coming to hear this record played live] and thinking, ‘I wonder how many Velvet Underground albums these people have in their record collections?’ I suddenly felt very apart from my audience. And it was depressing, because I didn’t know what they wanted.” That's Enneagram 4 elitism right there. Bowie feeling alienated from his audience because they don't have the same taste for obscure underground music. Enneagram 3 elitism is different. Type 3 elitism is feeling more rich, successful, and famous than others.
@Schmendrick Oh sorry. I didn't see your comment before mine. I guess the context I was trying to put it in was that Bowie was always someone who did whatever he felt like doing, at any point in his career, even at the earliest stages of it, and there was nothing anyone could do or say to stop him. He was an artist who took a great deal of risk. So much experimentalism in fact that even iconoclastic 5w4 artists like Scott Walker and Trent Reznor praised him for his fearlessness. Trent Reznor said of Bowie: "[David] seems to have not only created one larger than life identity, but then while [that identity] was getting bigger, threw it out and created another one, threw that out, and created another one.. and seemingly skipping from genre to genre and style to style, fearlessly. Not putting his career first, not putting 'hey this was successful so I better hold onto that'." Trent Reznor goes onto say that creating music is also a business, and that Trent himself was afraid at times of not being able to pay rent if he decided to change his music. You can see Trent Reznor talking more about that here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgneB1Gy9Tw
David Bowie's advice to young upcoming artists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ0o5Y05wKs
I feel as if the case of "Low" being evidence for 4 > 3 needs more context considering you mentioning yourself that Bowie didn't actively promote it in combination with its initially being reviewed harshly. Also, MBTI-wise, I don't feel like "Blackstar" is a good single example of anything overall, since it was at the very end of his life - he'd had plenty of time to develop all of his mind by the time he released that album, which someone like him certainly would have. My comment prior to this was more re: the light oversimplification tends to put 3s in in general than anything else, for the record, but re: Bowie, I'm not actually trying to fight your typings, for what it's worth! I'm more just probing out of curiosity.
The reason why 3s are associated with artifice is because the 3s sin is deceit (deceit with themselves and others). 4s sin is envy. The 3s key motivations are recognition for their achievements, to have attention, and to be admired. The 3s are good at being able to know which things they do that garner the most amount of positive attention and will continue on that path to achieve the very best. 3s like Madonna and Ricky Martin have very rarely veered away from their pop sound, which has proven to be successful for them, because veering away into more experimental music would mean the risk of losing their success. In the 1970s, Bowie was particularly unhappy with his manager Tony DeFries. Bowie ran off to Berlin to escape the sycophants of Los Angeles. Tony wanted Bowie to come back and continue making that "black music" of Young Americans that garnered Bowie so much success. In Berlin, he paired up with Brian Eno to create the experimental album "Low" which is one of his most lyrically depressing albums cast over upbeat experimental sound. Tony DeFries did all that he could to keep "Low" from being released, but Bowie managed to have it released anyway. He didn't do press or publicity for Low, he didn't even have a tour for it. Instead he decided he would follow Iggy Pop on his "Lust for Life" tour and become Iggy Pop's touring keyboard player. Basically shifting all focus off of himself and into supporting Iggy. Despite Bowie not promoting "Low" whatsoever and receiving harsh reviews from critics upon its release, to this day it is considered one of the greatest albums ever made.
I'm kind of peeved with 3-ishness being reduced to association with fabrication, artifice, and always being able to conveniently blend in anywhere as opposed to 4's authenticity and integrity when, from my understanding, it's more that 3ishness (3w4ishness, at least) is more about trying to distinguish oneself through actions and skillsets and always trying to become "more" as opposed to a 4ish trying to get to the bottom of and tap into an essence that's more personal. 3s and 4s could both distance themselves from and voice disapproval of a city culture or lifestyle they find un-classy, or feel estranged from other people in general. (Albeit it'd come from a different place in a 3 than in a 4.) That said, I might just be reacting to buzzwords and I do understand arguments for Bowie as a 3 and as a 4 both, though I still personally cast my vote for 3 - I just wanted to get that bee out of my bonnet.
It's because Celebrity Types has him as ISFP, I think. Also, too many sheeples on this website.
There are a ton of ISFP votes which make no sense to me. If you listen to Bob Dylan or Lana del Rey, you'll get some pretty straightforward Fi-Se-Ni songs about answers blowin in the wind or finding oneself on the open road. Bowie's Ni-dom on the other hand created cryptic songs like Blackstar which most people still have no idea what that song is about. His songwriting style is not at all straightforward like an ISFP's songwriting.
@Bobnickmad I respect what you say about the power of Fi, but once again I believe it is imperative that we look within the overall vision of the worker to see how it is relating to the function stack and the ego. Fi in the dominant positions asks that an ego be constructed which creates some sort of a moral standard or code in order to quickly deal with and in a sense rationalize the various emotional reactions that occur to separate experiences. In order to create a new person, then, the introverted feeler must in some way be using an intuitive function to do so, but in the way you describe would clearly be Ne: creating a tangible character based on a certain emotion. The point of the exploration of this character would be to understand the overall underlying nature of the feeling itself, to inform the experienced emotion and give it some context to the construction of a moral code (holistic vision of the ego function). In Bowie's case, however, it seems he starts with an idea, such as the idea of isolation, and then he pushes himself into a position where he must experience that or creates a character who must experience it and by proxy, understanding how he abstractly constructs their psyche feels their reeling and their emotion. This is a very similar process to Sufjan Stevens, also INFJ. In an interview with Stevens he mentions that he usually takes from his own experience as a starting point and speaks of characters from there. That sounds awfully like the language you use to describe high Fi, but in fact, the way he uses it, and the purpose are to understand the nature of how emotions impact reality. From what I can discern of Bowie's interviews this is the same theme, making him INFJ and not INFP or ENFP.
I know I write a lot of comments, so please bear with me. I just want to make my case as to why he's 4w3 instead of 3w4. In that same interview below, David Bowie said this about Los Angeles: "I went to Los Angeles and I lived there for a couple of years. It's a city I really detest. [Los Angeles] is sort of a callus. It's a blister on the backside of humanity, really, whereas Detroit has real people energetically trying to survive. But in Los Angeles it's fabrication in real life...". Compare that to Andy Warhol (3w4) opinion on Los Angeles: "I love Los Angeles, and I love Hollywood. They're beautiful. Everybody's plastic, but I love plastic. I want to be plastic." A 3 would enjoy that fabricated lifestyle, but a 4 would distance themselves from it.
I think it's that same evasion of talking about one's own feelings, that creates this misunderstanding where others stereotypically see INFJs as "mysterious", "otherwordly", and "elusive". When really it's their exploration and discovery of the behavioral patterns and feelings of others that helps an INFJ discover their inner self.
In the interview I'm linking below, David Bowie evades questions about his own feelings because, just like Nick Cave (INFJ), he's not terribly in touch with his own feelings. His feelings depend on external sources. He absorbs emotions from whoever he's with. The interviewer asks him if he's lonely and alienated, he says that his characters are lonely and alienated. When you ask an extraverted feeler, especially one who's an INFJ, how they really feel they're not going to know what to say. For them, it's a question that requires a lot of thought and time to decipher. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwTFW4kfHl4
David Bowie does have some Fi, mainly because he's a 4w3, but his Fe outweighs his Fi. Extraverted feeling characteristics: - seek to understand others behaviors, motivations, desires, and beliefs - focus on observable patterns of behaviors and motivations - are focused on the dynamics of how people relate to each other - seek to objectively understand the feelings of others. On the other hand, here are the characteristics of introverted feeling: - seek to understand their own behaviors, motivations, desires, and beliefs - are ruled by their own subjective and personal values - focus on how behaviors and motivations of others are the same or different than their own - focus on being true to who they are. David Bowie has said countless times how Ziggy Stardust, Aladdin Sane, Halloween Jack, The Thin White Duke, Nathan Adler, or anything other character he's created are nowhere close to his "true" self. He considers his creations to be acting roles with a combination of many external influences. People mistakenly believe that because he's not exploring himself in his music, that makes him 3w4. But they couldn't be more wrong. When Johnny Depp (4w3) transforms himself into Jack Sparrow or Mad Hatter for his roles, is he being untrue to himself for fame/success? No. When David Bowie creates characters, like Ziggy Stardust for example, his intentions with the character are to explore that character's psyche, what motivates that character, what naive idealistic expectations that character may have, what that character's inevitable downfall might be (example: Ziggy commits suicide) , as well as what emotional state that character is in. Bowie has a background in theatre and mime, so his approach to music is in a very similar way. His approach is VERY different to Lady Gaga. Gaga's alter egos have little to no biography or backstory.
I don't see how writing from the perspective of another character is Fe over Fi, I tough it's well established that both Fi and Fe can do this. If you think that Fi writes only about themselves or only care about self-expression, you miss a big part of what they are. High Fi has the ability to pin-point a certain emotion or instinct in themselves and then develop a character out of that or see the link between apparently unrelated kind of people.
The reason why his Ne is well-developed is because he has a 7-fix in his tritype. INFJ so/sx 4w3 7w6 8w9 (The Messenger)
Also, the way I determined David Bowie was social instinct first was through his music. So much of what he writes about is a social commentary about the times he was living in. Human rights of LGBT in the 70's, post-Cold War division of Germany, post-hippie depression, black equality, the list goes on... he had a bird's eye view when it came to humanity (Ni), and it's what made him so ahead of his time. It's because of that ability that so many people mistakenly viewed him as "messianic" or "Godlike".
Bowie is Ni and also heavily Fe. The way I determined this is by deconstructing the themes in his music. His music is not usually about his own feelings, but more about the feelings of the characters he's choosing to write about, it's all written from *their* perspective. One fine example of this is one of his earliest songs from his first self-titled album called "The Maid of Bond Street". He wrote this song before he became famous. In the song, he writes about the feelings and perspectives of two different characters. One character who has fame and success which has left her very lonely, and another character who is a "nobody" and who is envious of others' success and wishes he could have it. Through introverted intuition he manages to link the humanistic qualities between these two seemingly unrelated characters. A lot of people don't accept David Bowie as a 4w3 simply because they find him "too charming" to be a 4, but the reality is that 4w3 so/sx is the most charming, humorous, and sexually appealing of all type 4 stackings. That, combined with extraverted feeling and his average to high health levels is going to make him seem like he's not a 4, even though he actually is. so/sx 4s show a softer, friendlier side to the public, while only the people closest to them will know of their darker melancholic side. At his unhealthiest, his need to look unique was emphasized, but that changed later on. When a 4 reaches the highest health level, they are able to let go of their forced uniqueness and attachment to their self-image. A healthy 4 lets go of the belief that they are missing something that others have. Towards the end, Bowie became comfortable with who he was.
@Scotty No sir it is a technique so that you pronounce the letters slower. I don't think I've ever typed anyone in that manner. Those of you questioning her Ni are in the high minority. I think you're wrong. I'm not going to cater to you and a few other people raising ambiguity about her type in another forum. You are using a distracting tactic. The comparison is still valid in my view since we can see that 82% of people on this site voted that she is an Ni dominant. I did pay attention Scotty but I'm not going to do so in another forum. Also, tqm Bonita ❤️
Leave thephaxsi alone, fagotty.
Are you actually typing out the letters as if he is clearly introverted, intuitive, feeling, and judging? I could buy some function magic argument where the mythical Ni superpowers are something that he possesses but there is no way you can really say he is a "judger", nor can you for Annie Clark, who multiple people are questioning about her "Ni" which you seem to just not pay attention to.
Clear as day I N F J. In addition to being like Tilda, an INFJ 5w4 Sx/Sp, his comments about seeking out isolation to feel and explore something are uncannily similar to the way Annie Clark (also INFJ 5w4 Sx/Sp) describes her process of writing "Strange Mercy." It's Ni to the bone and no one seems to question it with her...
@idlebody I was reading a couple of Evan Rachel Wood interviews, and she being a person obsessed with David Bowie said that Tilda Swinton (whom she also admires) was like a female version of Bowie.
To those of you who think he's 3w4, I advise you to go to listen to Bowie's album "Outside" and then come back and tell me if you still believe he's a 3.
Tilda Swinton (INFJ) has this to say about Bowie, who she was good friends with: "I'm from the same planet as David Bowie."
"I’ve always found that I collect. I’m a collector. And I’ve always just seemed to COLLECT PERSONALITIES, ideas." Documentary INFJ David Bowie - Five Years https://vimeo.com/151364531
TBH, I feel as if this site tends to get INFJ-vote-happy when it comes to prominent people noted for being thoughtful and conceptual and can't help but suspect it's based on the type's statistically-recorded rarity. There /are/ people I can definitely see it solidly for (e.x. Kendrick Lamar), but as for Bowie, he had a long, fulfilling, and super-productive career over which he would've had plenty of time and chance to develop all of his functions. Earlier in his life, from what I gather, he was definitely oriented toward the senses (he seems to have been a visual person as much as an auditory one - he said that when he was young, he wanted to be either a musician or a painter, and he ended up actually being both though he was obviously much more famous for the former; and there's a lot out there about his pre-finally-falling-in-love-with-Iman sexcapades), and though he /was/ good at being a provocateur and was interested in chasing fame, it seems to me to have come from a more Fi-ish place than a Fe-ish one - a raw desire to make more of himself and end up in a position to throw himself all into his chosen line of work, namely the arts, for lack of better phrasing. I see him as a super-in-control, well-developed ISFP, but do also see where ENFP would come from. Also, this isn't an attempt to pose this as evidence or backing so much as making a comment, but I saw someone saying somewhere that "He was really good at being David Bowie, but he didn't really know who David Jones was" - does seem like a comment someone'd make about the life and career of a 3w4.
I've switched my vote from ENFP to INFJ for Bowie. Before I believed him to be a Ne-dom with a well-developed Ni. But now I understand the case to be the opposite. He's a Ni-dom with a well-developed Ne. His chameleon nature is actually incredibly Jungian. The way he changes his colours is not so much an expression of the self, but it also his way of holding up a mirror to the world, showing everyone what being a human really means. Ziggy was a caricature he created to portray the inauthenticity of what it means to play the role of the "rock musician". By telling us flatly about the inauthencity of that world through his music, he actually became the most authentic musician of his time. Ain't that just like him?
Nope, I can't see Bowie as anything else but a Ne user, if not a Ne dom. I'm familiar with the man's work and peculiar personality, I had the pleasure of seing him live on the Reality tour, and was absolutely convinced by the exhbition David Bowie Is that he could not be anything but ENxP. Randomness, exploration of possibilities in a broad sense, extroversion, his methods of work prove Ne use all over the place. Although he was a complex individual, interested in many things (ENxPs are the most cultivated people I ever met), including Ni fileds (like I mentioned with The Man Who Sold The World), he was not a judger, had no real ethics, message etc and his intuition was not focussed, limited, introverted, even dare I say subjective.
I'm pretty sure Ingmar Bergman is INFP. About Peter Gabriel being INFJ: I'm very open to the idea. But most important, you comment makes it like you can see Bowie as INFJ too :D
Quoting songs isn't relevant. You could find very personal and deep lyrics from songs like Secret World, Blood of Eden where the Ni+Fe is quite obvious. It deals with insecurity, it's about admitting his feelings in a very open way that is sheer Fe. I could had that his friendship with Jodorowsky and his interest in Jung (writing a song about him and all) is also demonstrative of Ni, but you could answer that Bowie produced a record like The Man Who Sold The World, inspired by Nietzsche and Aleister Crowley, Ni users. And saying Bowie is darker than Gabriel is nonsense. Gabriel went as far as you can go in terms of exploring the depth of feelings, very much in the way Jung did with his own psyche. Bowie was quite never emotional about his music on the other hand. Anyway, I'm not sure I should argue since I think I've made fair enough arguments before on this page and you seem to have an opposite consideration of Fe/Fi seing how you always type (Bergman page and all).
And you did a very big favor to me by metioning Peter Gabriel. Let's order these artists from darkest and most enigmatic personality on top (Ni):<br><br> David Bowie (INFJ)<br> Billy Corgan (INFJ)<br> Michael Jackson (ISFP)<br> Peter Gabriel (ENFP)<br><br> Peter Gabriel can't be INFJ. A very simple exercise. Just think about it.
Sorry wrong lyrics from Sledgehammer. Peter Gabriel still ENFP to me.
What, Peter Gabriel is Ne-dom and ENFP to me: very playful, very cute. And he has good Fe because he's ENFP (aux Fi-Fe pair). Will vote on him right now!<br> "Fox the fox<br> Rat the rat<br> You can ape the ape<br> I know about that<br> There is one thing you must be sure of<br> I can't take any more<br> Darling, don't you monkey with the monkey<br> Monkey, monkey, monkey<br> Don't you know you're going to shock the monkey"<br><br> "Oh oh<br> I struggle to contain<br> Whoa oh<br> The love that's in my veins<br> Oh oh<br> And how it circulates<br> Oh oh<br> If you could take my pulse right now<br> It would feel just like a sledgehammer<br> If you could feel my heartbeat now<br> It would hit you like a sledgehammer"
Nothing much left to say. He was a very cultivated and curious individual, "move to one thing to another when bored with the other". "I was not asking myself who I was". Ni doms are way more focussed and have a strong consciousness of their visions (they even tend to dislike dispersion) . Having flair, seing trends, possibilities is Ne not Ni. If anything Ne can be somewhat more creative than Ni. Remember how Iggy Pop was impressed by how outgoing he was in Berlin, how large his circle of friends was. If you want to compare ENFP Bowie to someone who really has a similar career and is without a doubt INFJ, go see Peter Gabriel.
Also, think what Bowie's career is all about: it's constant change and re-invention. Ne-dom pursuing their dreams who are in a constant state of change. Ni-dom is hollistic, they stick to whatever vision they have of their art, and while it changes, it changes by becoming more complex, not by jumping from one thing to another. So, Intuitive, lead with extroverted perception: clear Ne-dom. Also, Fi because IMO he really embodies his art. Usually for ENTP (Thurston Moore, Dave Thomas of Pere Ubu), it's more a case of mad scientist at play, while Bowie becomes his art. He then leaves one vision for his art for another (Ne-dom) but while at it, he embodies that particular vision in time (Fi).
On a more controversial note, I re-tough the MBTI function order in order to make it fit better with my personal observations, and use all 8 functions in a more logical arrangement, rather than holistic and simplified function axes. In my view, ENFP have actually more Se than INFJ. ENFP are: Ne-Fi-Fe-Se-Ni-Te-Ti-Si. The Se is however subordinated to Ne so it's usually not apparent. What does it mean that Se is subordinated to Ne? That they want to live those things they imagine in the real world, unlike INP who just likes to create imaginary world with lots of detail, ENFP wants to actually live their dreams. That's what Bowie is all about. INFJ have inferior Se,which causes a fascination with Se, but when INFJ try to get into Se directly it requires lots of effort, think of Marlyin Manson, and his grotesque display of Se. Meanwhile David Bowie plays the rock-star persona effortlesly, he embodies it. Jim Morrison was another ENFP with an effortless rock-star persona. Sorry, but when Se inferior try to put that on, it looks weird (Manson,Maynard James Keenan), it's the usually unobserved Se in ENFP that gives them that rock-star aspect.
If anything, that just puts the last nail in the idea that he could be anything like ISFP. What that post manages to prove is that Bowie is N-dom. Also, the poster says that Cumbercatch and Mulligan, recognized INFJs aren't, so he's probably biased in his view of what INFJs are like, and probably gives Ni-doms more credit than Ne-dom when it comes to abstraction. Also the stuff about ''internet is rebellion. its vast potential is untapped'' could be Ni, but it can also be Ne: look how many possibilities this internet thing offer. Both N-dominants are good at seeing possibilities in things and going into abstractions.
Just my general Bowie knowledge and some random quotes made me realize he's INFJ. But look at what I unintentionally found tonight, what a Ni expert says, who also agrees Bowie is INFJ: "David Bowie: Discerning Ni-dom" https://charitysplace.wordpress.com/2016/01/21/david-bowie-discerning-ni-dom/
Yeah; INFJ, right...the quotes confirmed it. Except that everything they describe is Ne opportunism.
His quotes are very INFJ (aka WTF). Wanting to entertain, Fe: "I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring"; non existant Fi: "I'm always amazed that people take what I say seriously. I don't even take what I am seriously"; Ni-dom: "I always had a repulsive need to be something more than human. I felt very puny as a human. I thought, Fuck that. I want to be a superhuman", "People are so fucking dumb"; visionary Ni-dom: "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming", "The moment you know you know you know"; adoration towards Fi-doms: "I rate Morrissey (Steven Patrick Morrissey) as one of the best lyricists in Britain. For me, he's up there with Bryan Ferry"; and HOLY SHITTTT!!!: "The only art I’ll ever study is stuff that I can steal from". INFJ confirmed.
He adores INFPs so much.... INFJ.
I'm not buying ISFP. He's more likely INFJ but no one has voted that one either.
What type is (was) this guy???????????? (Ex)Fan of Brian Molko and Arcade Fire, both NF.
I meant why you choose ENFP over ENTP, but you made great points about why he's ENxP. For me, it's about the way he looks in the interviews where's he's more aloof, the fact that he resembles a Fi-dom at his most quiet.
No, sorry, I only meant about your last comment, I agree that you made some great points about why he's a Ne-dom.
Could you tell me more about that? I think I've made some solid points in this thread...
I think you arrived at the ENFP conclusion for the wrong reasons tough.
Well it took me some time to understand that being detached, somewhat cerebral was not necessarily Ti over Fi in Ne doms. I found that in real life ENFPs are often more selfish, self-centered than ENTPs, who themselves are quite warm and considerate towards their close ones. So Bowie being cold and aloof, building walls between him and his musicians on tours, and less of a textbook idealist led me to believe he was ENTP before I switched to ENFP.
I don't understand the ENTP votes.
ENFP 4w3 sx/so. His tritype is 4-7-8. Ne is his dominant function, his worldview, his driving force. His need for reinvention, his ch-ch-ch-ch-changes. Go on youtube and search Enneagram tritype 478 and you'll find a video that describes David Bowie's unique personality combination.
Ah ah ah, guess all the posts down there are no good for you. I've yet to see a clear defense for ISFP-Bowie.
Se is very conceptual with work that they're passionate about as they almost always have different projects going on. I've yet to see a clear defense for Ne-Bowie.
Talking about his work with Trent Reznor: "Trent is a minimalist in the way that he structures his material, my stuff tends to be over layered and conceptual". Anyway Se/Ni over Ne dom for Bowie does not make any sense.
Se doesn't stay in one place. Se is fluid and constantly moving. Lana Del Rey, Jimi Hendrix, M.I.A are all ISFPs and they're always playing with different sounds. They never stuck to one thing, just like Bowie. Ne musicians are actually much more likely to stick to one thing, like John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, Morrissey, etc etc, because they have Si. Those are all INFP musicians and their stuff is great - But it's all largely the same. Are you talking about the J/P dichotomy when you say Je/Pe doms? Because I'm quite cautious when it comes to the dichotomies.... If you're not talking about J/P, then you've lost me.
His explorations were very sensual. He after mastering and fully exploring a sound or idea, he left it behind and quickly moved on to a new thing. His "dreamy" qualities came from his tertiary Ni. ISFP to the max.
really really ENFP "exploration" of universes, of new stuff, always looking for something new, he feels what can be possible, tries and manages. It was very important to him to manage. 3w4 + ENFP
http://brianmay.com/brian/brianssb/brianssbjan16a.html#07 A beautiful story on the writing of under pressure, told by Brian May (most probably ISFJ, so inferior Ne) which further indicates Bowie was a Ne dom.
Rest in peace. A truly wonderful, unique, and inspirational person.
Bye, Bowie. :(
RIP. What a shock...
Is the ESTJ vote a troll?
You're right to correct my use of the word "warm". I'm obviously not a native english speaker, and expressive is quite what I meant to say. I'm also more convinced of ENFP over my initial ENTP guess as time goes by.
You're right about inferior Si. What I meant is that Ne supported by Fi has less concentration and may seem more superficiial than Ne supported by Ti. I'm still very unsure wether Bowie is ENTP or ENFP. ENFPs 3 are not as frequent as ENTPs, but they are not that rare either. I still see Bowie as a cerebral individual, but I found some ENFPs in "real life" to be just like that.
ENFP + 3*
Hmm, I'm not convinced :p ENTPs have inferior Si too, so why wouldn't they also be taken for SPs ? And ENTP 3 is still a strange combination to me ^^ I don't know, I get an ENTP vibe from him.
I thought ENTP for a long time, because of his way of being detached and quite insensitive at times. But I then realised that many of the ENFP I know are this way, self centered and sometimes lack authenticity. ENTPs I know are the opposite, their Fe making them warmer. That may seem paradoxical, but ENFP are also often taken for xSFP because of their lack of concentration and care of details (inferior Si) while ENTPs have fewer chances of passing for a Se user.
ENXP for sure, I mean just look at him.. and I think ENTP is more likely (how can a ISFP could be typed a 3 so clearly, it doesn't make sense..) but I won't try to convince anyone artists with feelings don't have to be FPs.. That would be doomed ^^ "It seems that he uses that program to aid his inspiration, if he really was a strong Intuitive type I think it have been quite easily for him to come up with all those word-associations without using that silly device to help him." Ne users like novelty, imagination, randomness, etc.. He is this way all the time, and is SO Ne that he uses this "silly device" to come up with things he himself wouldn't have thought of, that's how out of the box he is.. It reflects the way he thinks.
I honeslty think the "there's no message in my songs"/ISFP argument is a cliché . Everybody can have lonely feelings and explore them through songwriting. While I definitely associate Cornell or Dylan with Ni, there is no way IMO that Bowie is anything else than a strong Ne user. I understand that the things I associate with Ne in his behaviour could be seen as Se evidence. But let me state my case : The man had no bank acount and his manager paid for the things he wanted until the late 70's, which would be pretty weird for an auxiliary Se (the function of the real). I think it screams inferior Si. Bowie has no problem with imagination. He strives for randomness. The use of the verbasizer is in no way different from the cut up technique he used (while recording under pressure with Queen for instance. The two singers could not hear each other while performing). During the Diamond Dogs era he recorded a whole concert with the musicians on the left of the stage not hearing the musicians on the right. While the musicians jammed on the Outside sessions, he painted and listened to them. As opposed to Dylan or someone like Neil Young who are most probably ISFP, Bowie never knows what he wants for a record. He only has a concept of what the record should be. He never gets into a studio with songs already written, he's looking for a meaningful acccident (just like someone like Robert Altman would). He also says « I'm not a liar, I just keep on changing my mind ». Indeed he said in 72 « I could never work with a computer ». But from the 90's he supported download and was deeply interested in the internet revolution. « Sometimes I must fight against the idea that what is familair is necesarly mediocre » (1999). that sounds very Un-ISFP like. When I think fo Bowie, I associate him with people like Dali, Fellini, Welles, an the more I look the more I consider ENFP over ENTP, but ISFP I can't see. Bowie is not authentic but very aware of the use of his image, has a flair for the dramatic and business in a detached way. I'm sure he's a 3w4 as well, which correlates more often with ENxP than ISFP.
I tried real hard to see him as an ENFP, but the more I looked at it the more cerebral and detached he seemed to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Sgq0XoxPw Look a the way he works using a program to write lyrics. I don't agree at all with him having ISFP traits, I think that whole ISFP thing is a joke considering that Bowie is the embodiment of Ne. I stil can see him as a very conceptual ENFP, maybe in the range of a Jim Morrison or in a way John Lennon might have been, the trouble is that I sometimes spot Ti in his behaviour. He was also very concern with the internet, from the start, and has an undestranding of technology that fits ENTP better than ENFP.
He is ENxP, no doubt about it after seeing the expo "david bowie is". But I wonder what makes him Fi/Te over Ti/Fe?
ENFP is also possible. But I can't see ISTP.
CelebrityTypes strikes again with crap typings - this guy is like the definition of ENFP.
Je ne sais pas...Je n'arrive tout simplement pas à le voir Fi dom et Se auxiliaire. Je crois qu'ENxP est définitivement plus logique. Sur sa méthode de travail: il utilise souvent le cut-up, du dadaïsme, "It involves taking a finished line of text and cutting it into pieces—usually with just one or two words on each piece. The resulting pieces are then rearranged to create a brand new text". Commentaires de Visconti : "There's a part of David Bowie that definitely does not want to repeat himself". Bowie: "Unless I've got some conceptual piece in mind, I don't go into it with a real premeditated idea of what it's going to turn out to be". C'est très Ne dom, non?
"il était atypique parce qu'il y exprimait ses émotions, et on les y retrouve de façon presque infantile" Ben c'est complètement Fi ça, sûrement pas ISTP. Je trouve que Bowie fait ISFP dans le coté homoérotique (que n'aurait pas un ISTP) est centré sur ses activité artistiques.
Connaissant un peu le personnage et sa musique, je ne peux que m'insurger contre l'hypothèse ISFP, ou Fi dom. C'est même tout le contraire que j'ai toujours perçu: Ti dom. Bowie ne fait pas confiance à ce qui lui vient naturellement dans le processus de composition, d'où des structures de morceaux alambiquées, non linéaires. Il utilisait aussi souvent des méthodes "hasardeuses" de collages avec des articles de journaux par exemple qui semblent très Ne. Même son producteur Tony Visconti disait à propos de son disque "Heathen" qu'il était atypique parce qu'il y exprimait ses émotions, et on les y retrouve de façon presque infantile ("I'm still so afraid on my own" par exemple sur Afraid). J'aurais pu penser ISTP, mais il n'avait pas de compte bancaire jusqu'à très tard, son manager lui payait ce dont il avait besoin, et sa façon d'utiiliser les instruments (le sax notament) ne font pas très Se auxiliaire je trouve...
moi quand j'entend des chansons comme ça j'ai aucun mal à le croire IFP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXxmIcsmpnQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jg4ekLG9Zo Le Fe franchement je vois pas.
Il y a de ça, mais ça pourrait être un Se tertiaire. J'ai du mal à le croire Fi-dom.
Il est S. C'est esthétique avant tout.
J'ai fini par lui mettre ISFP (après ENFP) mais je suis pas du tout convaincu. ENFJ ça vous semble absurde ? Ou ENTP. Il m'a toujours paru Fe (et/ou So).
Il aurait mieux fait de pas revenir. Je l'aimais bien.
Oui, plutôt. Même s'il me reste toujours un doute.
plutôt l'inverse: un ISFP à tendance ENFP. Comme Drew Barrymore.
Je crois que c'est un ENFP à tendances ISFP (donc avec inclinaison vers le versant "I" : Fi-Pi).
il a influencé bcp de monde . avec des albums avant-gardiste style 1.outside. (même si ça a quand même vieilli).
Autant le 3w4 est évident et même un prototype assez sublime... autant sur le Mbti, il est impossible à typer. P tout de même, pour le reste.. ENP ou ISFP, car ENTP est très possible. Hésiter entre ces trois-là est tout de même étrange.
Il est fondamentalement du style actif et optimiste de l'énnéagramme (3), pas du style masochiste, envieux et dépressif (4). C'est un 3w4
Ah oui, pourquoi pas ISFP. En revanche je le verrais plutôt 4w3 et même assez représentatif de ce type
ISFP 3w4 Sx/So
Voilà pour moi ce que j'appelle un cas d'ambigüité ENFP/ISFP...