Light Yagami ( Death note )
Cartoons and Manga Characters
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Cartoons and Manga Characters
Absent or broken pic
His social skills, popularity on school, and other facts that aims to an extrovert, can be explained by his enneatype 1w2 social, but he stills being an introvert.
Clearly most agree on xNTJ. But I see him as someone too calm and discrete to be an extrovert.
Who are these fools voting INFJ for Light? That is entirely wrong. Light Yagami is xNTJ, most likely INTJ. Animeonly plebs begone, I am discussing the manga character. Reading these comments, too many hyperfixate on the function stacks for their reasoning. Te/Ni or Ni/Te (xNTJ) is certain. It is not easy to distinguish between the two. Using inferior function as diagnosis is flimsy because there are few (if any) examples of it in the story. You must examine how ENTJ and INTJ compare to determine which fits Light best. Light Yagami is a reserved and private person, expressing his true thoughts only when alone. Light Yagami does not automatically assume the role of a leader. He is eventually chosen by his peers (task force) to lead for his talents or because no one else can. He is a detailed planner, preferring not to take any unnecessary risks. He works from behind the scenes, hiding behind the guise of Kira. Being in the spotlight is not something Light particularly desires. How does this sound ENTJ over INTJ? Both types are very goal based, but Light's energy does not come from other people. My vote for INTJ is certain.
Tostand. One problem with you typing light as intj. xnjs so in general can sway people and the huge diferent between you and light ishat you are so sx 8w7 6w7 3w4 and light is so sp 1w2 7w8 3w4. Secondly some entjs are phobic, like kaiba from yugioh.
Heavy Te user. Great use of auxiliary Ni. ENTJ for sure.
L and Light would make a great couple.
The point here is to look at Mikami, they are basically the sames.
Black and White isn't Fi at all, you cannot be farther from the truth. If there is a comprehensive fonction, its Fi. You keep describing STJ things.
@ephemeris "His view on the world comes from Fi, as it's about black & white morality " His black and white morality comes from having Fi as the inferior function (Te in the dominant spot). As I said, a person with Fi higher up in their functional stack would manifest not only as a subjective understanding of what defines values and by extension a "good" morality, but also as willingness and advocacy for others' right make that understanding for and by themselves.
I agree. If he were INFJ he would be much more reluctant about sentencing and would seek to understand criminals. Ni's insights about people, Ti making sense of them and Fe's comforting and sympathising display of internal judgement is the combination that explains why some INFJs find themselves kind of getting where that serial killer with childhood trauma is...getting from. lol
If he were INFJ, he would try to talk to those "criminals" and tried to learn if they deserve to be killed or not before taking actions. INTJs could be similar in this point too, but Light takes little time speculating and is not very hesitant to act upon his ideas, so maybe ENTJ fits better.
His view on the world comes from Fi, as it's about black & white morality (bad people must be punished), not Ni+Fe (tries to understand the root of bad actions in human), so at least not INFJ imo.
ENTJ because Light represses Fi not Se. Fi concentrates on the personal values of the subject thus upholding not only individuation but also an invocation to let others express their own, equally valid values. In the ENTJ Fi is repressed and so instead of a focus on the subjectively and personally true there is a focus on the objectively and verifiably true. This remains true for matters of morality. What about Light’s morality? Throughout Light’s journey in enforcing his true and just moral system he alienates the personal in favor of the objective. He ruthlessly sentences to death people who do not fit his moral code without any consideration whatsoever to their circumstances. The ethical system he wants to enforce on humanity clearly favors an impersonal definition of virtues which he decides are to be followed. I personally see that as rather simplistic approach to morality. I also think an INTJ would have a much more complex view on the matter.
Re-changed my vote to ENTJ : i give up on that guy, he's untypeable
I've also seen : light INFJ, kira ENTJ, and INTJ as a result somewhere on a forum, i think it makes sense
As someone said, INTJs 1 can appear E
Changed my vote to INTJ. I was talking with someone on Youtube in the comment section and I realized that Light doenst share his ideas to anybody actually. As an ENTJ, I want to rally other people to my cause. Take the moment where he manipulates the girl whose boyfriend was killed in the bus. He didnt think of sharing his ideals any single moment. All he wanted was his ideal to come true and forgot about her as a human being and the fact that she was a good person. I think this is dominant Ni, he was too caught up in his head to even realize that he could have convinced him to come on his side. Also, lack of Se impulsiveness : he could have been attracted by her but no, since he has INFERIOR Se. This is not the only example, but think of it one second : does this guy really strike you as an E anyway ? I think it was Scotty who said that Light was an introvert who was magically granted many friends and popularity. I actually believe he's right. I vote INTJ.
Popular and charismatic = E, not I, so ENTJ>INTJ
Any type can be shitty to their family.
He is an ENTJ, he was really impatient. INTJs are not impatient. And also he was quite ruthless, whereas INTJs show great love to their siblings and family members, example-Lelouch from code geass. Light called his father stupid before he died. So my vote goes to ENTJ.
ENTJ. Why is he Introverted? He is popular.
Oh hey. I didn't even remember commenting earlier lul.
It's because he's ENTJ.
So many INFJ and ENTJ votes... WTF?!
I haven't kept up with this argument, but I've changed my vote to ENTJ.
Being an extrovert regarding MBTI doesn't mean being social, having many friends, liking social interaction/ stimulation etc. It rather means firstly having an outer objective focus instead of a focus on your own subjective, often rich, inner world. Light deals more with outer expectations, facts and situations than his real wishes, feelings, visions etc. Even in the first episodes, L described him as having immature moral standards - which, of course, can be a sign of Tert Fi; but seeing that he acts very quickly without reflecting everything back to his intentions and that he doesn't seem to think too much about his concrete vision (he rather concentrates on the way than on the goal), especially compared to how careful and responsible he treats some other things, I think his 'inner world' is underdeveloped/ -valued. His first instintinct is not collecting more information or carefully dealing with the net of information he already has (Ni/Si) but fastly evaluating situations on the matter of facts (when he finds the notebook, his first reaction is 'what a bullshit' because his Te tells him that this doesn't fit with the objective standards he knew; therefore, he decided to ignore it. Ofc, then his Ni comes into play and he decides otherwise.) So, probably ENTJ. (Also, I really don't see much Inf Se, except maybe in his megalomania and seperation of reality; but then again, this seperation is rather a seperation/ inability to empathize with individuals and to have more nuanced moral standards; choosing objective, clear and simple rules to make conclusions about more complex human behavior. That would be Inferior Fi - which fits with ENTJ, too.)
INTJs are actually probably less comfortable pm average taking risks than ISTJs due to less introspective neuroticism, and the godly power plus Light's sense of justice spawned godly ambitions.
No doubt INTJ: 6w5 SP/SO. This is accurate for him Great for you, Light
ISTJs don't normally have godly ambitions, and they certainly wouldn't be as comfortable taking risks as Light.
INFJ is ridiculous
Too hard-working to be INTJ. Could be ENTJ, ESTJ, ISTJ. Probably extroverted though.
Light is absolutely not an ISTJ. He's an egomaniac who uses the death note because he's addicted to the sense of power it gives him. The laws he chooses to enforce are mostly arbitrary or made up by him (laziness, etc) and he's much more of a leader than a follower. The way he planned out his life so far in advance seems pretty Ni as well. He doesn't care about people as individuals, which is why he appears more reserved, but he's way too charismatic to be an IxTJ. So basically, ENTJ > ESTJ > INTJ > ISTJ.
I've long thot he was an ENTJ, but after reading the comments, INTJ actually makes a lot of sense.
I think he has some similarities with the INFJ, but I don't think that he is that personality. For me he is an INTJ or ENTJ, and to be honest, seems to be ENTJ.
Light's plan is too cold-hearted and methodical to be an INFJ. He's most possibly an xNTJ. INTJ or ENTJ is far more plausible than INFJ. I don't understand INFJ votes at all, are they spams?
If people want to vote ENTJ, they should do it. No one cares about INFJ/the-guy-with-50-accounts leading.
Yes, I Agree with the ENTJ typing somewhat but I really don't see any strong evidence that he is extroverted. He spends a lot of time alone and is extremely private. He also really dislikes people. Remember cognitive Functions are not skills. But I'm not 100% sure either, ENTJ's also act this way. I would gladly change my vote even at the expense of INFJ leading. Which is why I believe many don't go right away and do it.
Clearly an ENTJ.Obviously a Te-dom
There are more evidence which support Light not being Si dom. Just pay attention at how he processes everything. He plans 10 steps ahead of everyone. He is bold and creative. I mean, look at how he trapped Ray Penbar, or the many ways he hid the Death Note. A Si dom also would have never put in motion the plan that led to the Yotsuba arc. It takes too much speculative and abstract thinking to do that. Si can compare current situations with past experiences, but in a very matter-of-fact way, and I think we'll both agree that nothing could have prepared Light to the events of the manga/anime.
Clearly if you think that is evidence against Si, you don't know Si doms at all. Si is great at providing approximate predictions of human behavior because it stores experiences and matches up the current situation with the most similar recollections. Ni is a lot slower and deeper, not being as content with the instinct itself but digging further.
Just about the abstract thinking thing; Light is 100% speculative in his reasonings. It's always "if I do this, that will happen and that person will react like this, which leads to X event" etc. It's not factual and concrete at all.
No he's not an extrovert. He is an introvert who was magically granted a ton of friends and worshipers by the universe rather than his actions. However, he very much keeps to himself and is not focused on anything except his own selfish things. His preference for detachment from people not only makes him an introvert but also rules out a 2 wing. Yes he is an introvert and introspective, but where is his abstract thought? He sees problems and wants to fix them with non-theoretical strategies. He also is attached to the idea of bringing upon justice to the rotten, which can be seen as a learned mission from his upbringing. He doesn't really question his own ideals at all which also seems very strange for an actual Ni dominant. The more I see this page explode the more I think about him and also that ISTJ 1w9 is the best way to type him.
I believe ToStand has made Light's type quite clear in many ways.
The guy has tons of friends (I don't even know how, the show only shows the result not the process), at some point he invites like 10 people and even says "if there's a girl who wants to be with Matsuda... cuz he doens't have a girlfriend currently) .... how in the world would an Introvert be so much popular ? The guy is like the serious version of the ESFP => ENTJ. Now, I'm not saying that E <=> popular but clearly popular => E (but you can be a withdrawn and unpopular extrovert too).
For INTJ voters : he's wayyyyyy to extroverted to be INTJ, I even wonder because of him if I'm not actually INTJ because that bitch is way more social than me. The guy is ENTJ.
Changed my vote to ENTJ 1w2 (and not 1w9, he's too social and subjective to be w9) sp/so (though he could be so/sp).
lmao, this is supposed to be an easy one. ENTJ is the correct answer.
So there is no confirmation bias, just some logical, and accurate evaluation of what is wrong here.
@Pamdom : Just as you said it indirectly, if we suppress the INFJ spam, INTJ's one will stop (since there are "INTJ votes every time INFJ votes go up" to quote someone), while stopping the INTJ spam wont stop the spam on this page. So yeah, the wrong thing here to fix is INFJ spamming.
Yeah, I do think at one point ENTJ was in the lead. To be honest the spamming is out of control. Pamdom, you are correct that INTJ spamming is not good but it is just a response to the large amount of INFJ spam votes.This site is supposed to be a DATAbank... If there was no spam at all we know INTJ would be in the lead with ENTJ as a close second but the INFJ spammers ruined it.
Didn't ENTJ lead for a bit before the INFJ spam/INTJ counter-spam?
@TheMemphis, nor is spamming INTJ votes every time INFJ votes go up, lol. But you're not gonna mention that, right? Because Confirmation bias!
Sociopath ? Maybe, but obviously there is a problem, because spamming 50+ INFJ vote isn't some sane thing.
Who says that Light is INFJ it probably is xNFJ's sociopaths who are identifying with the Light attitudes.
Light is INFJ, and you people are nothing but a bunch of entitled idiots who can't accept evidence that's contrary to their preconceived beliefs, lol.
by Light's personality*
@Jamz : no I wasn't angry at all. The show got on my nerves I don't even remember why, but Light's personality maybe, or something else, idk, I only watched like 3 episodes and then stopped. I should watch the series again but I don't have enough time :/ Yeah for example (I'm watching some parts on youtube quickly at the moment I write this), the guy knows everything. There's that scene where the professor asks him something and he's like "oh yes sure blablablabla" and he does it fucking perfectly that got on my nerves. Oh yeah then he walks in the yard and the girls are like "oh he's so pretty" and him on the other hand didn't do anything to get these favors. And that got on my nerves too. The way he has it easy while I have to literally struggle through life to get anything, that's really something that gets on my nerves. The way that people like him, the way that girls like him and the way this seems so natural to him and the way he takes it for granted, it fills me with rage. There's not only that. The whole "full of himself" personality that he has. Idk, he pisses me off. Forget about everything I said about Fe vs Fi, the guy is probably some kind of INTJ (or ENTJ). Ennegram 1 probably, that's why Scotty saw him as an ISTJ. 1 is common in ISTJs. INTJs 1 are the most ISTJish of the INTJs. I hate him in some way, because he doens't align with me. If I had had the Deathnote, I would have used it for power, killing (subtly, I'd never get caught) all the people that I consider as rivals (like Patrick Bateman did for the other guy, I don't remember his name). I sort of have anti social tendencies and the Death note would probably be a tool to my personal power. For example kill that asshole (even if he's not that much of an asshole in fact) that's dating that girl so I can take her for myself (not that I really like her, but you know, the power thing). Or kill that fucker that annoyed me in some way or another. Always subtle, always. Muhahahahha. Aahhhhhh if only I had that book :)))
@ToStand: (Heh) You Probably got angry because your sister compared you to such a maniac. On a more serious note I fail to see any Fe. He does work well with a group but only because that's the only way to keep things done. But he doesn't have any group values or else he would question himself. He does have Fi and he is not a complete monster. He did become one in my eyes (which is what this manga is about : corruption.) but he started out of a sense of fixing what is wrong with the world sine criminals who polluted society disgusted him in his own words. Scotty does have good arguments but Light still isn't working in a routinely and dutiful manner. He got Mikami for that.
And as someone pointed out, Ni+Ti can come off as T.
@scotty : I said he looks like he likes people, but not really. IxTJs can't do that, end of the question. They can't fake interest that well, or you see that it's fake. Dexter is awkward while Light plays that social game very well. So either he's ENTJ or INFJ, but he's not ENTJ because of what I said about Fe-Ti vs Fi-Te. And yes @gayintp, my argument wasn't "gross blabber". As someone pointed out below, each quadra (in socionics) has different values, and Light is not in the gamma quadra. When you use Te-Fi, it means you're holding strong convictions that come from within, and you are defending them in a rational and objective way. You seem focused and logical while you're actually very Fi driven. Fi is like the fuel of Te. And when you find someone who agrees with you, you're usually (even when unhealthy) protective of that person. That's the "silent" Fi harmony, it's like you're communicating without talking. Light is pure logic on the inside, he doens't have that. He's shallow and I don't see any Fi burst. He doens't seem to hold strong values or whatever. Look at Dexter. He has a code. At some point he saved his sister from being killed by his brother. The guy has values, twisted but still. While Light has none. It is pure fucking logic, that's Ti. That's why ESTPs are the archetype of the salesman, they're funny and they sell you everything, they don't give a shit. Actually, in a sense, they're more logical than ENTJs because their logic is not driven by Fi, but by itself. Just as Fi users are more authentic because their emotions are not driven by Ti logic of social harmony (vs shallow Fe).
Light is an INFJ. He screams "Beta Quadra". Here's a link to the Quadras' descriptions if you haven't heard of them: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/quadras/ He can't be an ISTJ, because he has zero Delta values ( Delta Quadra is the opposite of the Beta Quadra ). So If he's not INFJ, then he's an ISTP. But he's an Ni Subtype INFJ, which is sometimes referred to as the "revolutionary". This Subtype usually has very well developed Ti which can make them come across as thinkers, and they're usually very opinionated and morally heroic, even aggressively so.
The function '' Si '' what I have learned, has the data storage ability observed, thus using these data for the present. It is a focused and nostalgic function that stores experiences and uses them for life. It has enough attachment to important data from the past and can remember all the important detail for the common good or the good practice and efficient. Usually they are systematic, traditional and more tactical than strategic that; They do not see and do not create big ideas and plans for the future, just use experiences for now and do what must be done. When they are in grip or loop with the Ne function, end up with paranoia, thinking of possibilities that can destroy the protection they are doing within the environment, by doing so, they seek connections with accurate data to protect themselves from chaos - Like Batman, Michael GTA V, Cyclops, Dexter. Kira is a character driven by intuition, he deduces events and knows where to attack to create a situation that would lead to another, with the vision for the future. It explores not tactics, whenever a plan it falls he does not know what to do in a few seconds, but then regains control and create a new plan. All he does is of utmost trust with your mind, with your intuition to predict future events with bases in these events as soon Ni-Se. However, he is obsessed with putting their plans into practice, he does not expect, he does not think fully in the expansion, but can predict external reactions, but is very fast and is dominated by the need to control, which makes him blind, doing so be vulnerable. Soon I continue to ENTJ.
@scotty has the only sane argument in this comment section and even that uses some unnecessary stereotypes. Light is likely ISTJ, followed by NTJ. I read the walls of text below arguing for Fe-Ti and its just gross blabber. Being Te-Fi doesn't mean you relate to every other Te-Fi.
Light likes people? Did French subtitles change the plot?
@scotty : yeah I saw you defended ISTJ very well, but compare to Dexter and you'll see that Light has more social confidence than him. Dexter is awkward while Light is like "oh I like people".
Another point if that matters : I only watched a few episodes and got bored. My sister told me to watch it because she said I resemble Light a lot, but after watching a few episodes that guy got on my nerves. And I'm most probably ENTJ, so maybe that means something, I wanted to add that. BUT I agree from personal experience that INFJs sometimes can be mistaken for ENTJs and vice-versa. One great example of that is Shanks in one piece. Some people say INFJ, some ENFJ, others ENTJ. Personally, I have no idea. I relate to him to some extent, but not entirely, idk. The way he save Luffy by giving his arm seems like childish Fi to me, so I'd see ENTJ. But at the same time, he has lazy Ti-Fe reasonings sometimes like "you can shit on me but not on my friends". You can't shit on an ENTJ. Maybe you can shit on his friends, it depends ^^
He has no powerful overwhelming vision outside of wanting to stamp out crime for the world and act as god. Success = less criminals, less crime which was verifiable. This does not mean he uses Fe instead of Te. This means he uses Si instead of Ni. He's an ISTJ.
Another thing : at which point does he extrovert logic, i.e explain his view exactly ? What is his plan for the world (aside of course getting rid of "criminals" *sarcastic*) ? What's his vision ? ......
You guys have to stop thinking that all villains are INTJ. Here you have an example of an INFJ villain. He doesn't have any Fi. His shallow aim to kill all criminals clearly shows lack of individuation. His extroverted view on the world is not logical but ethical "criminals are bad people". That's a dumb and weak reasoning, if you can even call that reasoning. I have to say that for a supposedly smart xNTJ, the guy is really stupid on that one. I think someone said ISTJ. I can see where it's coming from, this robotic mind can also be seen as Si, but for the reasons I gave below, I can't see him as an Fi user. So I'll stick with INFJ unless someone has better arguments.
This, as someone pointed it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1ISK8Z0gN4 This is just a total wtf for every xxTx user on this planet. Light is anything but a Thinker, the guy is a pure Feeler. Even Ryuk at the middle of the scene was like "how the fuck did he do that ?". This kind of emotional manipulation is characteristic of a Feeler, especially an extroverted one. My vote goes to INFJ, the guy is clear Ti-Fe axis. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand functions (or at least their expression in real world) enough. At some point, he was even making fun of her even though right a second before she was kind with him and gave him her card. She was honest and kind. He wasn't. That is impossible with a Te-Fi axis, but possible with a Ti-Fe one. The way he manipulated her, and made fun of her and on top of that, send her to commit suicide is just pure evil I can't imagine in any sane mind. But I wouldn't see an ENTJ or INTJ insane that way. An insane xNTJ would be more about going crazy and killing everybody and shouting everywhere. Their F use is already weak by default, if they're unhealthy, it's gonna be worse. The way Light manages to extravert Feeling even in his unhealthy mind suggests F. Clear-cut INFJ, no Te pragmatism and plotting (compare to Near), he's all Feeling. A thinker like Ryuk doesn't get a single shit of how Light's mind works. The way he treated that poor girl is just too much for me. Light Yagami has no Fi. His bullying is clear Ti coldness. If someone has something to oppose to what I said, go for it. But the guy is Fe-Ti for sure. Unhealthy ENFJ 1 is also possible, but I'd lead more towards Ni in his case given the lack of morality he has. Remember that Ni is capable of rationalizing pretty much everything. In an Ni world, everyhing can be defended, even the worst ideas can make sense. Couple that with Ti and you have a individual that is a good manipulator and can get everybody on their side to make the most horrible things possible (Hitler for example). This is what Light is. The girl was almost confessing to him, she was literally in his arms. I don't think this is possible for an xNTJ. Here's how an ENTJ would have approached that conversation : he would have asked her if she could join his team and state her all the possible things she would earn by joining his side, she would have eventually said no and he would be pissed of and he would threaten her of death by saying he is Kira and so on. That's Te guys. That's why xNTJs are said to be blunt, they don't like sugarcoating things and they talk rationnaly. Light is Fe, end of the question.
7-“I never actually rejected the INFJ possibility. It's extremely naive in my opinion, and lacks un-convoluted arguments to support it, but I can't deny it's a possible interpretation, mainly because of the Yostuba Arc.” You think that the INFJ possibility lacks strong arguments, while I think that the XNTJ possibility is what’s lacking in them. If you carefully re-read all of the entries that have been put in here, you’ll quickly realize that the overwhelming amount of Te arguments are just about efficiency and the ability to strategize, but the worst part is that people are just repeating them even though someone already proved why Light cannot be a healthy or unhealthy XNTJ before due to the true nature of Fi and why strategizing is an Ni trait more than a Te one. As for the Yostuba Arc, you’ll also realize that its only logical explanation or clarification is that Light was his healthy and true INFJ self during it, while he’s extremely unhealthy during most of the series, and that’s precisely why people mistype him as an XNTJ, because isn’t XNTJ the ultimate villain archetype after all? Wake-up people!
6-As for the Ti argument which you think is “moronic”, I’ll have to ask you why you think so, because it makes perfect sense to me (I notice that you’re still using one of the same “pitiful” tactics I already talked about). What’s “moronic” for me is the Te arguments that are repeating themselves non-stop, and which rely on nothing more than stereotypes.
5-“Arguments like this one: "Light Yagami is a huge collectivist." are really cute, yet completely naive. Light is just a selfish and power-hungry individual, nothing else. He thrives more on crushing his opponents mercilessly than on realizing his so-called ideals.” So, the argument for collectivism is “naive” while arguments for lower Fi (killing his parent) and having Te (just being efficient and angry at the world) aren’t...Hmm, interesting. Anyways, how do dictatorships usually come about? Either through fascism or communism, and what is the basis for the latter two systems? It’s collectivism, so it’s obvious that the ruling party in a collective system would be “selfish” and “power hungry”, and that’s Light Yagami for you, no one said that he’s an angel, but he really started out with noble Fe motives and he truly wanted to better humanity’s condition, just like the leaders of the Russian revolution, but power quickly corrupts anyone. Why would he go about killing petty criminals when he had something as powerful as the Death Note which could be used in much more efficient ways if his motivation was something else? Was he stupid? Well, I think that your reasoning is what’s stupid.
4-“Most of the Fe arguments rely on the "emotional manipulation = F" stereotype, which is obviously wrong: hello Claire Underwood, Sosuke Aizen, Amy Dunne...” Firstly, what makes you so sure that your stated examples are thinkers? Secondly, emotional manipulation doesn’t equal F, it equals strong Fe, wither it’s dominant, auxiliary or tertiary, and it gets stronger if it’s coupled with Ni. It’s no news that XNFJs are the ultimate emotional manipulators because of the strong Ni/Fe combo. I think that XXFPs do a fairly good job at it (not better than XNFJs and EXTPs but better than IXTPs) while XXTJs are the worst at it, and my personal experience attests to that if it’s to be taking into consideration. But flip it around to thought manipulation, and it’s a whole other matter. Thirdly, the Fe arguments aren’t just about emotional manipulation; they include his general behavior and way of interacting with people which is all Fe, just go and watch any episode for proof of it, and if you still think that Light doesn’t use Fe after that, then I’m really interested in what you consider Fe behavior (I’m guessing it will be being a doormat and crying for people’s sins)
3-“I'll just assume INFJs can use Ti.” Assume? I really don’t know what to say. Of course INFJs can use Ti, isn’t it their tertiary function? In fact, they can get so good at using Ti that you’ll mistake them for NTs (Niels Bohr, Ludwig Wittgenstein). Any feeler can be mistaken for a thinker if they have developed their thinking function (This is why arguing for Ti is not “irrelevant”), and I think that the latter case is found in INFJs more than any other feeling type due to the Ni dominance.
2-“I think arguing for Ti is irrelevant if you're not going to type him as xxTP.” I could go along with you and say that arguing for Fi is irrelevant too if you’re not going to type him as an XXFP, but I guess that you have enough sense to realize how “moronic” your argument sounds. Arguing for tertiary or inferior functions is never irrelevant. If it was irrelevant, why would there be a stack of 4 functions instead of 2? And why would MBTI theorists write lengthy explanations of the huge influence of tertiary and inferior functions? These are indispensable tools in typing people.
1-“I don't believe in some of the most important Socionics hypotheses so it won't get you anywhere.” You not believing in them doesn’t make them wrong or invalid, and that doesn’t make the Socionics related arguments “irrelevant” either.
Your inability (unwillingness?) to read is as despair-inducing as you wanting to talk Socionics with me. I don't believe in some of the most important Socionics hypotheses so it won't get you anywhere. By the way, where did I say they aren't correlated? Good luck trying. Since I'm in a good mood, I'm going to waste a little more time crushing some "irrefutable" Fe and Ti arguments. Notice that I'm extra nice today so I won't bother explaining why I think arguing for Ti is irrelevant if you're not going to type him as xxTP, I'll just assume INFJs can use Ti for the sake of argument. I'm doing it because coming at me in such a ridiculous way arouses me, actually. Most of the Fe arguments rely on the "emotional manipulation = F" stereotype, which is obviously wrong: hello Claire Underwood, Sosuke Aizen, Amy Dunne... need I continue? Arguments like this one: "Light Yagami is a huge collectivist." are really cute, yet completely naive. Light is just a selfish and power-hungry individual, nothing else. He thrives more on crushing his opponents mercilessly than on realizing his so-called ideals. And he really doesn't give a shit about his criterias; as soon as someone opposes him, he kills them - RIP Lind L Taylor. The only Ti argument I saw was something extremely moronic like "Light skeptically studied the death note (Ti) before applying it to the real world to test the results (Se), and finally understanding how it works through trial and error, and how that’s the opposite of the Te approach." Common sense is dead at this point. The rest is either derived from that, or over-analyzing. You will maybe realize that I never actually rejected the INFJ possibility. It's extremely naive in my opinion, and lacks un-convoluted arguments to support it, but I can't deny it's a possible interpretation, mainly because of the Yostuba Arc. Finally, I don't need bringing ENTJ arguments to the table, it has already been done quite well and I'm no parrot. Have a good night/day, darling.
Manecleis, the only one who's using pitiful tactics is you. Let me clearly state them for you, because you seem to be oblivious to them, or maybe you're doing it on purpose, here you go: 1-You provide and have no arguments of your own for XNTJ. Instead, you focus on belittling the none XNTJ arguments by way of sarcasm and exaggerated play on words and meanings, instead of providing solid counter arguments. 2-You keep on ignoring any argument for Fe and Ti because of you inability to refute them and your dogmatism, even though they're stronger and more reasonable than the Te ones. 3-You only focus on talking about how wrong and "magical" the Fi shadow argument is. Don't you understand that even without it, Light still uses Ni, Fe, Ti and Se? For the hundredth time, Fi shadow is only an attempt at explaining his unhealthiness. Why haven't you attacked the Fe and Ti arguments instead? Finally, there's no way Socionics and MBTI aren't correlated. MBTI's INFJ is Socionics' INFp because the cognitive functions are the exact same for both. Socionics only goes deeper in telling you how you use all of the 8 functions instead of just focusing on your first 4 as MBTI does. The shadow functions of MBTI are the same ID and Super Ego blocks of Socionics. So there you go. Now I'm just waiting for your repeated tactics of making fun of the Fi shadow and the Socionics argument without saying why they're wrong in order to avoid talking about the stuff you can't refute: The Fe and Ti arguments.
@scotty: I agree there is possibility of a Dominant Si. I don't have any strong arguments against it. I do however once again see no point in trying to find a Fe or Ti where there isn't one. THe only reason I don't vote ISTJ is because I don't see a sense of pure duty in him. If he would have a Te-Si preference i feel he wouldn't have gotten Mikami to take on his job. I believe an actual ISTJ wouldn't be as crazy and would have played his cards much safer. Light was a pretty crazy individuals and had some convoluted plans. But all this is a weak argument. How can we surely distinguish NI and Si apart?
Quoting Socionics won't save you here. MBTI and Socionics are different theories/systems based on different hypotheses. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Just trying to mix concepts to confuse things up and make yourself seem more knowledgeable. I don't have any more time to waste with your pitiful tactics.
Manecleis, the only mind blowing thing is your ignorance. If you think that the concepts previously mentioned are stupid than you obviously know nothing about typology except for stereotypes. Do me a favor and check out Socionics. Also, you seem to be ignoring the tons of previously laid arguments for Fe and Ti which are almost irrefutable. The Fi shadow argument is only attempting to explain his unhealthiness, as for the Ni/Ti loop, no one said that it has anything to do with Light, you're only negatively exaggerating your response in order to create the effect of falsehood which will help in hiding your ignorance and in feeding your dogmatism.
I'm too lazy to watch the episode to check this.
That's not how it actually happened though.
I don't buy the Mikami argument. Light did not even choose him because they're alike. He picked him because he felt he was the most capable of applying the new God's will. He's basically a loyal and meticulous minion. This is a Frank Underwood (ENTJ) and Doug Stamper (ISTJ) type of collaboration, in short.
The Fe garbage just doesn't cut it though. He doesn't care about how his actions really effect other people. His focus isn't making the world better for other people. He is mainly just disgusted with the world as it is, and his ambitious nature makes him want to be the hero. Actually he displays a lot of Si, Te, and even some Fi, but I don't see Fe.
@Jamz that still doesn't show Ni over Si. I see someone who makes easily verifiable observations like that many people in the world do bad things, and only sees trusted methods (either becoming a cop or their elimination) as suitable of dealing with them. Ni is much more concerned with taking observations and developing them into a complex worldview. He lets the facts speak for themselves which is a much more Si approach. He also handpicked Mikami (considered by most to be ISTJ) for sharing the same attitude as himself. People assume smart = NT but he's a depiction of a smart ST.
The very credible arguments for INFJ rely on stupid concepts such as the "Ni-Ti loop" or the "strong Fi-critical-parent INFJs possess". Mind-blowing indeed.
I've already read the tons of "naive" and "cute" arguments for XNTJ, thanks. It seems that it's you who haven't carefully read the only credible arguments, which are the INFJ ones, or maybe you're just ignoring them like most people on this page because of your inability to refute them. I humbly suggest that you check them out.
This page is filled with tons of arguments in favor of xNTJ, so I humbly suggest that you read them, and shut the hell up.
Yup, it's as cute as your arguments for XNTJ...Oh wait...You have none.
Light INFJ is such a cute and naive point of view.
Are you kidding me people? If you can't see Light Yagami as an INFJ then you're simply and idiot who doesn't know anything about typology.
Before Light found the Deathnote he was an Overachieving student who attended supplemental classes. He wanted to become a cop and had helped the police a couple of times before. True to the Ni-Te sentiment he wanted to clean society. He was later given the equivalent of a nuke. Sure he was nicer without it but his goals were still the same. I fail to see either Ti or Fe. I guess he would question himself more if he used them, which he never did.
I don't think he's either INxJ but there is the idea that you could be on the borderline between INTJ and INFJ, in which case you could exhibit both pretty strong Fe and Te.
Let me guess. "INFJ can have strong Te too" or some other nonsense along these lines?
The amount of INFJ votes consistently coming in is fishy. I find it interesting that people automatically equate any form of emotional manipulation with Fe. Don't get me wrong, I understand that Fe users are good at emotional manipulation but so can many other types. For example Frank Underwood is very good a emotional manipulation and blackmail and the general consensus for him is ENTJ. I am not saying that NFJ is out of the question but take this into consideration before you blindly vote INFJ. Someone give me an example where it is clear that Light is a Ti user... I really can't think of an example but I can think of several examples where he uses Te and it is evident that Te is strong in him.
So he takes the Death Note is not simply writing the name and analyzing several good tactics to use, it is with the mind in the future in an idealized world and dominated by it. ISTJ's can have moments like that when they are in trouble with their lower function, however, it should be guided by Him, that is not the case it because I do not see him wearing an exaggeration of view of past details to guide your way, he You throw in the unpredictable world and try to control situations of future events and deducing paths he must follow and be exploited by him.
I think you have a narrow view of what Si can do. He sees people with his own eyes make the world bad and he works from there. There is nothing particularly abstract about choosing to remove these people from the world once he happens to have a death notebook enter his life.
It is not ISTJ. I agree that there are much S more intelligent than N, but it is not ISTJ. Best example ISTJ that stands out in fiction, in my view, is Cyclops, Dexter and Batman (although it has many INTJ and ISTP moments, but, I believe it was for a while one ISTJ). The sense of justice of them may even look, but Raito is obsessed with external changes. It is quite bold and risks with their pragmatic visions of the future. He does not want to maintain or fix something, he wants to totally change the environment for what he considers to be best for him and '' others ''. It is not very methodical and thoroughly cleaned equal Mikami, and he dares to venture further in order to be able to control the future. I do not remember him seeking tactics and using past experiences to do things, does not even strategic and manual inspirations.
the last part should read "proven or self-evident methods". He is genius level intellect ISTJ (some people think N = intelligence but not true) but it is evident on how he stays "inside the box" with his planning. I feel Ni would find the pressure points in society and hit them efficiently while he would rather focus on what has revealed itself to be "rotten".
I think he's ISTJ 1w9. ISTJ are more likely to appear ambiverted than INTJ because Si is very good at "programming" social skills, even if the Si-dom would generally rather withdraw. An ISTJ 1w9 would also be more likely to develop a "God complex" than other enneatypes, giving off the superficial impression of Ni. He also hand-picked Mikami as the closest in mindset to himself, and it would make sense for both to be ISTJ. The 1w9 is idealistic and driven to make the world a better place from the shadows, while the Si and Te prefers proven methods to accomplish this.
While i dont think he's an INTJ 3, I do like that particular combination. I think INTJ+3wX is the only way INTJ can become a viable option at all.<br> After all INTJ is the most introverted of all types and has typically bad social skills (low Fe). Light is an ambivert with good social skills. Type 3 being an extraverted enneatype with good social skills might be able to cover those gaps.<br> Type 3 also isnt that bad a fit in general, as it can also explain his focus on hard work, his competitiveness aswell as his narcissism.<br><br> However I dont think Light is primarily driven by his own success or prestige. His drive is to fight the world's evils, which fits 1 not 3. Relating to that Type 3 also does not explain his moralistic streak, while Type 1 can. (Although Fi in INTJ could probably do so)<br> Also looking at health levels and disintegration paths for 3wX it doesnt fit as well it does for 1w2. See my comment with "I think this is how all bases can be covered:" for details on that. Type 3wX would be my second pick after 1w2 though.
I think he's an INTJ and 3w4, he seems like to type 1 because he's very idealistic, but i think is because 4wing. In the beginning, it seemed very moralistic as a type 1, but with time it proved very competitive against L, seemed more an attitude of a type 3 more than one type 1.
Of course he's an INFJ in a Fi-Ne loop with a well developed Te and some Se bursts when stars are properly aligned. Obvious yet visionary.
An INFJ with such shortsightness. Let me guess ? Like the Fi in INFJ its the Ne in INFJ ?
@Raw: Very Interesting. Any specific resources you can point to that explain what you have described in your recent posts? Especially in regards shadow functions for the types, how PoLR Te explains some of his behaviour and unhealthy types in general. I came across these concepts before but i never found more than very basic descriptions that dont explain what you seem to be referring to.
Okay, I admit, Light is INFJ. Death Note showed the height of INxx's personalities. Kira = INFJ L = INTP Near = INTJ Mello = INFP
@Manecleis, even if you think that the shadow function argument is irrelevant, it’s not the only argument for him being an INFJ.
Stop using questionable concepts. There is no such thing as "Fi-shadow-function-critical-parent" in the INFJ cognitive process (Ni-Fe - Ti-Se). Every other function is basically irrelevant when it comes to typing a character as INFJ.
Light Yagami really wanted to save the weak from a collective point of view, and he really wanted to see the betterment of society and his Utopian world at play. His noble end justified his ugly means in his opinion, and the power of the Death Note further blinded him and led him down an abyss which he couldn’t leave because he had already fallen too deep into it. I know this was long, but I really hope it clarified some confusion. Light Yagami is like the best example of an unhealthy INFJ enneagram 1. The arguments for it just fit so perfectly that I can’t see how anyone could consider any other possibility for his personality type other than INFJ.
Him killing criminals doesn’t mean that he’s an ignorant wannabe world dominator or controller; it means that he has strong unhealthy collectivist values which are related to social and moral issues, and which he seeks to exercise. These types of values are characteristic of unhealthy INFJs, and examples of real life INFJs who embodied them are Osama Bin Laden and Hitler. Why do you think that many of history’s villains were INFJs? On the other side, you’ll find the INFJs with the strong healthy collectivist values, such as Gandhi.
But most importantly, the biggest indicators for him being an INFJ are his motivations in my opinion. People may argue that Light is motivated by a sense of wanting to control his external environment, or of wanting to dominate the world since he sees people as inferior and himself as superior. I personally think that viewing Light Yagami in that light means that you understand almost nothing about him or his character. Don’t you think that if he really wanted to dominate the world through the Death Note that he would find much better ways of going about it than simply killing criminals, especially considering that he’s the top student in Japan?
Why do you think that many people say that when Light Yagami lost his memory he very much resembled an INFJ? It’s simply because he is an INFJ. When he lost his memory, he was his healthy self, that is healthy INFJ, but when he regained it, he was the unhealthy version again, the one that’s stuck in its Fi shadow function and is negatively influenced by the power of the death note. I really think that this is the only and most logically consistent explanation of the latter confusion. As for Ti, I think that the best argument for it was already given by @superpws, who explained how Light skeptically studied the death note (Ti) before applying it to the real world to test the results (Se), and finally understanding how it works through trial and error, and how that’s the opposite of the Te approach.
Back to Fe again. If you can’t find any Fe in Light, than you haven’t thoroughly watched the show and observed the way he interacts with other people, or you’re too blinded by the Te stereotypes to actually see anything else. This guy basically uses Fe in most if not all of his interactions with others, just re-watch any episode and observe his behavior around people. He’s great at reading other’s emotions and manipulating them accordingly, he’s never blunt and almost never unintentionally hurts anyone by his words or behavior; he’s very easy going since people easily open up to him and quickly get to like him. Fe is ENTJs 8th shadow function, and it usually looks very bad when an ENTJ tries to use it, because they have close to zero skills at using it.
Arguments for Light having Te as a dominant function are nothing but over generalizations that overlook his deep motivations. Successfully carrying out strategies and getting results doesn’t mean that you have high Te. XSTPs are very efficient at getting immediate results, and a good example of another fictional INFJ strategist is Johan Liebert from Monster, who organizes a very successful money laundering business at the age of 15 (although I think that his enneagram type is different than Light’s and that he’s rather stuck in the Ni/Ti loop instead of any shadow function). It seems as though people are discarding the fact that perfect and long-term strategizing is an Ni Dom trait more so than a Te one. Besides, if INFJs weren’t skilled at getting results they wouldn’t statistically be among the highest types in college GPA next to INTJs.
Light Yagami is a huge collectivist. In fact, he’s like the best version of an unhealthy collectivist you could find in Anime. He advances the idea of common good through subjecting bad individuals to punishment, and stresses the priority of group goals (a safe society, lack of crime) while sacrificing individual goals, even his own sometimes (personal happiness, peace of mind).The latter description is almost the exact definition of collectivism, and if you could correlate this moral view with any cognitive function, it would be Fe, since high Fe users mostly consider the impact of any decision on the greater good of people rather than their own personal feelings or any individual’s.
Also, you cannot argue for healthy XNTJ, because, first of all, we’re dealing with a very unhealthy character, and secondly, Inferior or Tertiary Fi manifest themselves in XNTJs as individualism and personal moral codes that are independent from common external values (I already gave examples of Ayn Rand and Aristotle in my previous posts), not as possible ease with killing your parent and feeling no guilt over it as some people previously implied as an example of inferior Fi. That latter false view of inferior Fi is like saying that feelers love their parents more than thinkers, or that thinkers are more prone to killing people close to them and feeling no guilt over it. It just goes to show how people depend on stereotypes of the functions rather than really understanding how each one of them manifests itself relative to its position in the functional stack.
On the other hand, when EXTJs are in the grip of their inferior Fi function, they usually become ineffective, depressive and generally feel vulnerable and incompetent, since being in the grip of their inferior function means losing touch with their dominant role (Te). You’ll notice that the latter traits don’t apply to Light as much as the first ones, which excludes ENTJ in the grip. What about ENTJs’ shadow functions? Well, they’re INTPs’ first 4 functions (Ti + Ne + Si + Fe), and I can’t see how any of them could possibly explain Light’s unhealthy behavior, and even if an argument was made for any of them, I don’t think that it will be as strong as the Fi critical parent one, because that’s the only function placement I could find which perfectly explained Light’s extreme views. Even arguments for ENTJ in the Te/Se loop won’t explain Light’s behavior as much as the Fi shadow ones, because an ENTJ in the loop becomes like an ultimate Enneagram 8 ESTP.
Although I agree with the Enneagram 1 typing, Light Yagami couldn’t be an ENTJ for reasons which I previously mentioned, and which were basically the same reasons why he couldn’t be an INTJ, since these two personality types have the exact same cognitive functions but placed in a slightly different order. Light seems to be a very unhealthy INFJ who’s stuck in his Fi shadow function as I previously explained. This function is called the critical parent, and it manifests itself in IXFJs as harsh criticism of one’s self and others, which leads IxFJs into trying to impose their moral views on others and being highly critical in a negative way; also, I personally think that the previous situation would be more severe in INFJs than in ISFJs due to the Ni dominance, and more so even if the INFJ is an Enneagram 1. The traits related to the influence of the Fi critical parent perfectly apply to Light, since he’s not just killing criminals, but also innocent people who question his motivations or moral judgments.
"stopped war and caused a drop of 70% of the crime throughout the world" <br>Right, i forgot about that. Thanks for bringing it up. That's the kind of good example for strong Te that I was failing to remember below. For this high of an effect he clearly would have to successfully strategize on how to get the most impact with his limited amount of available kills per day (for example killing high-profile targets). That invalidates my thoughts about his Te being possibly low. <br> Coming to think of it he actually DOES kill people in suits later on doesnt he? Those could be the aforementioned corrupt politicians and oligarchs. <br> Maybe alot of his actual strategizing for his vision happens off-screen. Or i forgot about that aswell. <br><br> Now then, with both Te and Fe high that makes ENTJ by far the most likely of the 3. Te is the weakest shadow function in INFJs and Fe in INTJs. Only ENTJ can cover both well. There's also the issue of his low Fi that i mentioned in my first comment (not emotionally attached to anyone close to him, barely bothered by their deaths.), which also fits ENTJ best. <br>So I'm changing back to ENTJ. <br>Sorry for misremembering and flip-flopping. It's been like 7 years or so since i watched this in full. <br>------------- <br>I think this is how all bases can be covered: <br><br>ENTJ 1w2 lvl 4 (early, "high-minded idealists, crusader") and lvl 7-8 later (lvl 7: "Can be highly dogmatic, self-righteous, intolerant, and inflexible. Begin dealing in absolutes: they alone know “The Truth.” Everyone else is wrong: very severe in judgments, while rationalizing own actions." lvl 8: "Become obsessive about imperfection and the wrong-doing of others, although they may fall into contradictory actions, hypocritically doing the opposite of what they preach.") <br>1 and/or high Fe for moralism, identifying with his Te and/or Fe external moral values from society or his hard working dad for "hard working people = good people". <br>unhealthy 1 in general for basically being like an inquisitorial judge which is what unhealthy 1s become. <br>1 and 1->4 lvl 5 for more introversion than the average ENTJ, lvl 6 for "think that they are different from others, and feel that they are exempt from living as everyone else does.", perhaps in general also for some narcissistic tendencies. <br>w2 for more the more proud 1, lvl 6 for "Increasingly self-important and self-satisfied, feel they are indispensable, although they overrate their efforts in others’ behalf. Hypochondria, becoming a “martyr” for others. Overbearing, patronizing, presumptuous.", maybe lvl 7 for "Extremely self-deceptive about their motives and how aggressive and/or selfish their behavior is.", also in general with Ni and high Fe for doing it for the people (rather than for individuals which would be the Sensor type version) <br>2->8 for seeing violence as the solution and wanting to dominate the world. lvl 5 for "impose their will and vision on everything, not seeing others as equals", lvl 8 for "Develop delusional ideas about their power, invincibility, and ability to prevail: megalomania, feeling omnipotent, invulnerable. Recklessly over-extending self." <br><br> here's where i'm taking the enneagram health levels from: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/
Wowwwwwwwwww, I should give you guys a cookie for going in circles and I can kind of see why you type light yagami a certain. It seems like he is entj 6w7 disintegrating into a three and I said this because when stressed out, he becomes more impulsive and more dominating. He is basically like scar except less reflective. If he was infj with strong ti, he would just have try to make his killings look more realistic or subtle so people will not noticed it and he does not seem to understand people. He is te because he is literally all about results and efficiency and he kill a lot of people all atonce with the death
I'm not taking sides or anything, but I feel like an Ni dom would be much more patient. ENTJs can actually be quite impatient, as can ENFJs. Behaviorally I think he's introverted but I can see a lot of possibilities for Light.
Well, I do not want to be repetitive, but I can not see him as INFJ. He's too obsessed with practical and efficient changes to the world, when he picked up the Death Note he was not in the intuitive world developing massive plans he was simply imediado and knew what I had to do. Which to me, it is something quite Te. After L showed up he realized he was going into a game, L challenged, attacked his lower Fi saying he is a hypocrite and uses the pretext of false justice to satisfy yourself - that's what it really is - then it clearly falls into L. strategy Kira is far from the world because he sees people as inferior beings and are not worthy of your attention, so that only L managed to arouse his interest. After Near and Mello. Kira likes challenges, likes to show everyone how much is superior, wants to dominate the world because they do not see anyone logical enough for that, the feeling of it only appears when a plan goes wrong and yet avoids stay long whining, creates a new strategy and returns to play in a few seconds. However, the Light that was shown when he lost his memory seemed rather INFJ, but the Light in Death Note is undoubtedly someone who wants to control the world, to judge the beings he sees as inferior and search logic challenges with all that interpretation of arrogance.
His methods are highly inefficients ? Are you talking about the fact that he stopped war and caused a drop of 70% of the crime throughout the world (in 5 years). Even Near said that he did a good job. What you described about not targeting the roots is the lack of global, long vision, it has nothing to do with Te. If you cannot spot Te on Light you dont know what this function is because this character clearly has a lot of it. Light isn't a Ni dom.
Wouldnt "wanting immediate results" be much more of an Se thing than Te? Not that that would disqualify ENTJ, as they can have high 3rd level Se (and be very pushy with the Te+Se combo), but it's not really a strong argument for ENTJ over the other types either. "wanting immediate results" could also apply to stress activated inferior Se of INJs. (Does he rush things when he is under pressure?). As it can be explained by all 3 types in question (INTJ,INFJ,ENTJ), I dont think it's a very fruitful approach to try to distinguish his type by "wanting immediate results"/Se. <br><br> The biggest difference between NTJs and INFJ is normally Te (dominant/auxillary vs weakest shadow function). <br><br>Previously i considered ENTJ with high Fe as a second possibility after INFJ. However i'm beginning to wonder if his Te isnt actually pretty low. Here's a few things that I think are anti-Te and especially anti-NTJ:<br><br> His methods are highly inefficient. All he does is execute criminals by himself (most of which are even already convicted anyway). He couldnt possibly make any significant dent in the criminal population that way. He doesnt search for root causes to tackle to find a more efficient solution (like for instance killing poverty causing oligarchs and corrupt politicians instead). Nor does he try to optimize the rate at which he kills people. He also doesnt seem to try to measure the degree of his success or plan steps and milestones to check off on the way to his vision.<br> He's basically just "Evil people must die so good people can live in a better world"(<-a moral judgement). So he starts killing them. All he can reasonably aim for (and seems to do) with a strategy like that is to scare people straight through the fear of Kira. Not a long term solution. On top of that it's actually quite naive. All he would need to do is look at the real world results (->Te) of how already existing fear of things like hell or death punishment dont eliminate crime and bad people. So why would fear of death by Kira make enough of a difference? It shouldnt.<br> I can actually see an NTJ shooting down such an approach quite quickly because "that wouldnt work". <br> I think especially the issues of inefficiency and lack of realism need to be adressed if he is to be an xNTJ. <br><br> That all being said it's been a very long time since i watched Death Note and it was before i knew about personality types, so take my examples with a grain of salt. Right now i can remember alot of Fe uses (some mentioned below by me and others) but i'm actually having a pretty hard time remembering something clearly Te. (In fact when i tried to it was this anti-Te list that came to mind instead). <br><br> Either way, if i were to rewatch the series i would pay special attention to how much Fe vs Te he actually uses. I think that's the most fruitful path to making the final call on his type.
To me bob's comment seems to be more of an argument for ISTJ.
I can see the ENTJ side more with the "needing immediate results" argument.
Tough case. He is clearly an ENTJ, yet there are those moments when he may be an INFJ (the very first episode, the Yotsuba arc). I shall stick with ENTJ though.
Neither are INFJ lol. But I feel like if you vote Light as INFJ you aren't changing your mind so it's not even worth arguing.
Lelouch is not INFJ, he is INTJ, You can see all of INTJ's function in Lelouch, especially his Fi in his sad moments.
He and Lelouch are two INFJ's showing a well developed Ti. The worldview of them are to the outside as well, where good people are not oppressed by unjust and corrupt people.
"So, as you see him as an introvert who is wandering in their dreams and ideal world of planning and is a long time in the inner world creating thousands plans before putting into practice and will only think of to put into practice when a good part of the game is ready" I don't know what you're going on about because I never said that. All I said was that he was idealist and an introvert (because he grips in Se). None of that wandering in their dreams/heads in the clouds deal. I'm not going to argue about you with the Fe vs Te deal because clearly my point has gone over your head. But I will say that Fe does NOT have to empathize with every little person or even care for their own family. That's a big misunderstanding when it comes to Fe. Thats like saying Fi is entirely self centered and selfish.
So, as you see him as an introvert who is wandering in their dreams and ideal world of planning and is a long time in the inner world creating thousands plans before putting into practice and will only think of to put into practice when a good part of the game is ready - which is not the case for Raito - we really agree that it is introverted. Now he Fe and not Fi? All went out of their evaluates how he saw the society judging from all the possible ways negligible. So is this, if it is not ENTJ is INTJ, an idealist INTJ who cares about a superior society who is not subject to evil, only a superior society where strong people will contribute. He is Fe zero, it is selective to empathize, it just feels empathy when he sees that the person is really '' equal '' to him and can make a good conversation, yet sees it as a game where the smartest and strategist wins. He did not even really care for your family! He despised his father at the last moment of his life and was still making a mask of sorrow just to write the name of Mello to take one more piece of the board. This was the goal. Where Fe is it? For me this is Te, Ni and lower or tertiary Fi.
To clarify, obviously an ENTJ can have childish Se outbursts, but my main point is that an ENTJ with problematic Se would most likely have a continuous impulse control problem. Take for instance Sir Crocodile from One Piece. He's very comfortable adapting and taking control of the situation around him and he was always implementing whatever offense he had hidden up his sleeve, which was healthy Ni/Se. It was his childish Fi that got the better of him because it made him lash out whenever somebody insulted his character, his capabilities, or his plans. He may have been composed, but he was in no way as composed as he could have been. Light doesn't have this problem. Light's only had one major Se out burst which was during the climax of the very ending, so his Se can't be tertiary and his "Fi" can't be inferior, so he can't be ENTJ.
I already admitted that no matter how you try to type light, he will fit into the generalizations of Fe/Te. At least I provided a clear explanation on how he's creepily empathetic and not the "He's greedy and power hungry and wants what he wants so he must be Te" explanation lol. Regardless, I probably won't be arguing anymore about his Fe/Te because my explanation has already been provided. But I will admit that there is no way he's extroverted because he grips in Se. Remember when everybody had him cornered and Light had that whole "MATSUDA! YOU IDIOT!" outburst and he got all erratic and started running and yelling and spazzing the hell out? Yeah, that's the ugly Se grip. There's no way a Se tert would handle their Se like that, especially a Te/Se user. So, I'm not gonna fight you on the Te vs Fe issue since both arguments will play into stereotypes, but I really doubt that he's an extrovert.
And it's time to stop the INFJ spam
Much generalization. Light User is Te-Ni-Se-Fi, there are several people who have Fi function and are therapists and needs to learn the feelings of others, but idealize their own world of values and can ignore the will of others. Ok, now on Raito not have Fe but a lower Fi is because it simply has no interest in people, because, as I dissem before, he's repudiation of man, weak society and sees the Death Note as a need to transform the world the way he always wanted, a world where only workers and people who do what it takes to make a better society. His relationship with L is virtually shadow x shadow - ENTJ x INTP - he feels superior to others and recognized only Lawliet as someone on your level you can make a good conversation. He is proud, arrogant, strategic and uses others to achieve your goal, just empathized with L, but still saw it as a game and do not mind to defeat him and rub his face in his intelecutal superiority. ENTJ wins.
Manipulation is not a behavior that is necessarily tied to any type/function (I never said it was inherently an Fe trait), but the way Light does it IS Fe related as I tried to explain. Yet, no matter how you try to type Light, the way he works will play into the stereotypes of both Fe and Te, so there's no avoiding that. It simply depends on why and how he manipulates people. Light is Fe imo because his morals and feelings are objective and outwards. He may not realize it, but Light himself is quite emotional and sentimental in the way he sees himself as mankind's savior and as humanity's only hope. He believes deeply in his ideas and he tries to convince others by playing around with their feelings. He extends his beliefs outwards. He makes people think he genuinely cares about them and he gets them to do what he wants. The level of *emotional* manipulation is off the charts. But you wouldn't know that since you've never watched this show. Generally speaking, Te would not be so comfortable getting so ingrained in the feelings of others, especially because of the weak Fi. Fi doesn't like getting into other people's thoughts and emotions, which is the opposite of what Light does. Getting into the feels of others is entirely how he operates.
Your link explains there are two kinds of manipulation but doesn't say what kind of person are more likely to use which or is better at it.. Emotional manipulation plays on the emotions of the person and aims at making him/her act impulsively/based on emotions (if I understand it well) whereas intellectual manipulation aims at making the manipulated person think he/she is acting on his/her own free will. Fine, but what does that have to do with MBTI ? It's you who's saying only some types are better at one or the other ! Knowing how someone will react to one type of manipulation is in no way contrary to the INTJ archetype, it fits even well in the "knowledge is power" mantra that NTJs hold dear :p And again, using one or the other doesn't mean the manipulator is emotional him/herself. About the video you posted : I intend to watch the anime so thanks for the spoilers ^^ (I'm kidding, I don't even remember the name of the character that's going to die, but I'm not going to watch it !) Playing with the emotions of someone =/= being emotional yourself. I have a good example : I just rewatched Revenge of the Sith and in it Palpatine is manipulating Anakin's pride and love for Padmé to turn him to the Dark Side. That's the way to do with him : emotional manipulation for an emotional guy. It's only pragmatical ! Would you say he is something other than an NTJ ? I don't know if that's convincing, and I maybe shouldn't post since I haven't watched the anime, but something tells me I'm again in front of the "manipulation = Fe" confusion that I hate.
Moolfreet, any personality type can be manipulative, but not any personality type can be emotionally manipulative. High Fe users are masters at emotional manipulation, especially if their Fe is coupled with Ni. On the other hand, High Te + Ni users are more adept at other kinds of manipulation, such as thought or intellectual manipulation. Both groups can resort to both emotional and intellectual manipulation, but each group is still more comfortable with only one type of manipulation which is like their default, and that’s due to their preferred cognitive functions. Here’s a link to a short explanation of the different types of manipulation, you’ll find it on Chapter 4: https://books.google.dz/books?id=u9KAXhXNbq0C&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=emotional+vs+intellectual+manipulation&source=bl&ots=crKa7LUOjy&sig=AZ6voyAJW4dfBJZFmDwBPw7tO-o&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQl6-6_szKAhXMfRoKHfARAXsQ6AEIITAC#v=onepage&q&f=false Light Yagami is more of an emotional manipulator; he’s very attuned to other people’s feelings as Hisoka previously mentioned, which enables him to motivate them on an emotional basis for his own purposes. He doesn’t target people’s thoughts, but rather their emotions. This video which I previously put a link to kind of explains what I mean by emotional manipulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1ISK8Z0gN4 You should really watch the anime before making any prejudices. Manipulation isn’t the only reason why Light Yagami is an INFJ; he has many more important INFJ characteristics which you’ll start to see only after watching the anime.
I haven't even watched this show but I can see from here he looks like another case of "manipulation = Fe !" superficial vilain typing. "Te using others is colder. It's blunt and factual and doesn't enjoy sugar-coating things." good luck trying to manipulate people by being an obvious asshole.. You wrote the answer yourself : "Te is using information. It's organizing information and putting it to use." Being able to fake emotions to manipulate people doesn't mean he's emotional/sentimental himself. And even having emotions doesn't mean you judge based on them. Te judges objectively and is impersonal but it doesn't mean TJs don't have their preferences and feelings; they usually put them aside. He is type 1 if the typings are correct, that explains his idealism and the emotion of anger he must show (+ type 1 corrolates with Te) There are tons of NTJ manipulators, when will people understand manipulation can come from various perspectives ?
Te is using information. It's organizing information and putting it to use. Te will use people when unhealthy, but not in such an emotionally charged manner. Te using others is colder. It's blunt and factual and doesn't enjoy sugar-coating things. Fe is emotional. It is attuned to other people's feelings, so it's much more adept at actually manipulating other people. Light may be cool-headed, but he's very preachy with his ideals and knows how to sweet talk people to get them to do what he wants. Imo, his approach is the evil Ni/Fe formula.
That's not what Te means. He is perfectly fine using other people to accomplish his objectives because it is the easiest path. What isn't Te about that?
Imo, if he was Te he wouldn't be so quick to butter people up and try to use their feelings against them. He would just yell at them lol
I also switched to INFJ (from ENTJ) after reading the case for it and rewatching some of his interaction with other people. <br/> I remembered incorrectly. He doesnt just have 'decent' Fe. He has tons of it. <br/><br/> It really helps to seperate his internal thought process (Ni+Ti) from how he interacts with other people/the outside world. When he interacts with people he's pretty much all Fe. So at least as far as that is concerned his Fe is > his Te. I also saw his 'hardworking people = good people' line of thinking as him identifying with Te, however it could also be Fe via societies moral values. He also seems more of a moralist than a pragmatist, which would also be more in line with Fe rather than Te. <br/><br/> Either way he's either an ENTJ with high Fe or an INFJ with high Ti. But INFJ fits a better. INTJ makes the least sense.
Honestly, reading this, I'm starting to see the INFJ argument really, really clearly. It's obvious that he's not big on empathy that I think is what sways most people to the XNTJ agreement, his machiavellian philosophy being something that almost guarantees that. But honestly, his functions and the way he constantly tries to justify what he's doing, I think that's a key giveaway to a really unhealthy feeler and a truly tortured mentality. He has such incredible ambitions and really wants to see the world become better, he just has a very different way of going about it. While in the show you see him smiling and laughing at the death of his enemies, that less so speaks to me of a blithering psychopath but more of a degrading sanity. At any point when he smiles at the thought of a successful kill or when his plans work, it's later on in the series, earlier they came as moments of inspiration that likely stuck on as he started becoming more and more insane as the series progressed. I think it really goes to show how well developed a character like this can be, just how split down the middle people are about his personality is really something to marvel at. So I'm changing my vote to a very damaged INFJ whose vision makes him seem T.
It might be nitpicking or my bias, but nevertheless for the fun: His neurosis could be explained by Te PoLR which degraded him mentally. In the last episode, he was extremely stressed, which forced him to use Te, though he took stupid decisions quickly, shouted at the inefficiency of his worshiper, etc. Overall, his methods were HIS methods (which were not sufficient) which he applied through manipulating people (Fe). Very Ti/Fe approach. I don't see Fi in him at all. Those who think that he was pleasing himself, and that he had personal beliefs... he simply found logical inconsistencies (he worked with his father previously) in people's behaviors and the local laws. Ni has a quality of Fi when you see yourself through the perspective of Ni.
My arguments for INFJ (MBTI) or IEI-Ni (Socionics): His methods were very, very Ti. He was pretty much the antithesis of Te which take interest in collecting the resources, assessing how much time a task will take through objective measurements (though understanding the time intuitively is related more to Ni), etc. He took a skeptical approach to the Death Note, read its rules carefully and applied it to the real world to test the results. Later through trial-and-errors he finally understood how Death Note works. Te isn't exclusively pragmatism. That's Ti+Se. Socionics community puts him under LSI (ISTP) (who belongs to pragmatists club), probably due to his pragmatic approach and attention to details. Te isn't about achieving the goals pragmatically., that's the MBTI stereotypes. It's about taking an interest in the facts and how-tos as commonly understood by people. It doesn't take interest in skeptically studying a particular object (Ti) and test it personally to see the results (Se) so that the (personally) tested methods can be used later for achieving the goals. I could select ISTP, but he had too much childish idealism for an ISTP and a relatively weaker pragmatic side. He was characteristically very different than ENTJ/INTJ. I meet Te users everyday, and trust me, they don't take decisions the same way as he did.
Light is INFJ. Ni vision with an Fe approach. He knew how to read people and manipulate them. Why do we need to discuss this?
Let's don't forget that Light was able to kill random, innocent people as far as they were making some troubles for Light (Fake L for example). It's a selfish thing and it's actually looks like he killed Fake L, just because he didn't agree with Light's vision of the World. Quote from Episode 2: "You think... I am Evil?... IM JUSTICE, I protect the innocent and those who fears evil, Im the one who will become a God of the new world and everyone desires. All those who will oppose that God, they are the one who are the truly evil!" You could say that this sentence could looks like words from INFJs, but You can see that Light actually killed him, it's looks like a selfish excuse. https://youtu.be/agq3l2xfhfQ?t=16m16s
Raw, I can not find Fe in Light. I know it can be cruel versions INFJ's - Hitler, Johan etc - but Light is not the case. He is idealistic? Yes, it is idealistic, but idealism it is more obsessed with company practice, efficient, where people he judges as the bad are punished. I know this may sound totally distorted Fe, but is actually a Te-Fi huge. He is not empty itself, it is actually the reverse, he is full of himself. He thinks to himself what is right; It has a huge need to control the outside world where working people who live to contribute to the advancement of society are living without being killed by bad people. Himself before catching the Death Note thought that all the people he looked around him deserved to die just by the judge as weak and stupid beings. Near even said that the vision he has of the world is a generic view unfounded where he is, after all, is for himself, not for the world.Raito just want the world to itself, with its rules and judgments, where he who choose who lives and who dies, no one should take their place, but rather glorify, because he wants the feeling only for himself. Quite right away, use your intuition as a complement to what he considers logical to society. Does not get much time inside his world of planning, everything is running over time, the pragmatic idea appears after it completes its main stages. Very immediate and focused on reality, ready to take over the world.
Raw: It's scary how your interpretation of INFJ is so accurate. Light as an INFJ... It could be actually true after everything I've read today. However, INTJ also are able to manipulate others people and act different in some situations, it's all about Ni dom. I'm confused right now, could You give some example about Light INFJ interaction with L. INTP from the show?
INFJs are said to be masters at keeping their friends close, and their enemies closer, and that’s exactly what Light Yagami was doing with L, Misa and the whole police force.
Take an XNTJ and an INFJ for example, who really despise the same person. The XNTJ will likely show his contempt for that person by way of cynicism, criticism, intellectual challenge, indirect or even straightforward insults, and that’s due to their Te and Fi, as they can’t really fake it for too long, at least not as much as high Fe users who are masters at faking it. The INFJ, on the other hand, will never betray his Fe image, and will treat that person as he treats everyone else, if not with more carefulness and civility, in order to gain more information about him and to prepare for the perfect striking moment if that person ever starts to cause a threat to the INFJ, and that’s due to Ni-Fe.
Finally, Light Yagami doesn’t externally show contempt for others, and the proof is his angelic Fe image which I already talked about. It’s true that he despises some people, but he still keeps it to himself. The viewers are the only people who know of it, since they make all of his secret thoughts known to us. Despising someone, or everyone for that matter, doesn’t say anything about your MBTI type, as everyone is capable of love and hate. The way you handle those emotions is what does.
As for making logical and practical changes in the world, I don’t think that Light Yagami was doing that. XNTJs usually have more interest in impersonal matters when it comes to what they want or need to change in the world. That’s not the case with Light Yagami, who’s primarily lead by unhealthy passion and conviction and interested in changing people’s behaviors, emotions and actions so they wouldn’t stand in the way to his utopian world, which is again, not an impersonal goal, it’s his own personal vision.
Personally, I think that INFJs are the ultimate ambiversts, because they manage to be as charming as extroverts when they want to be. They’re even more charming than extroverts sometimes, and that’s due to their Ni-Fe combo, as Ni perfectly analyses any individual it’s interacting with, providing Fe with the best information so that it can create the persona which that individual will find the most appealing and comforting. That’s why many people seem to easily open up to INFJs and tell them even their deepest secrets, even if the INFJ is a person whom they have only have met for like one hour. All of the traits I just mentioned are perfectly portrayed by Light Yagami. The proof? This short clip from Death Note: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1ISK8Z0gN4
I agree with you on him being an ambivert though. INTJs are one of the most introverted personality types, and ENTJs on the other hand aren’t really that introverted, since their energy is clearly at its highest when they’re interacting with people, or rather, when they’re flaunting their Te side around people, just like ESTJs. The types most correlated with ambiversion are usually IXFJs, and if you don’t believe me, just check out any of those “mbti’s most extroverted introverts” lists people put around in forums all the time and you’ll mostly find that IXFJs are always on top of those lists. On the other hand, the “most introverted extroverts” lists usually contain ENXPs at the top. ENXJs often times highly lean towards extroversion.
Kami-samaaa, who said that INFJs aren’t narcissistic? In fact, they are some of the biggest narcissists around, and the proof can be found in the following link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1ISK8Z0gN4 Scroll all the way to the bottom and you’ll see what’s written about INFJs. The website clearly states that they’re linked to the narcissistic personality.
I do agree with scotty who made really good points on him being ISTJ. I'm personnally torn between ENTJ and ISTJ. I think one important point is to know if Light's rigidity/shortsightness comes from a certain immaturity (like L said he was) or from some ISTJ traits.
I know that that's not the only difference between ISTJ and INTJ, but we're not discussing weather Light is ISTJ or INTJ, aren't we? And any behavioral traits can be assigned to many types, the difference is what motivates them.
ISTJ vs. INTJ is not a dichotomy of "routines" versus "control freak side".
The tried-and-true methods in xNTJ is due to their control freak side that wants to make sure everything works as planned, not as a routine as in an ISTJ. Imagine a pilot checking everything that every engine is working correctly, so they can fly smoothly, not because it's a habit.
@randomguy What you said seems to apply to ISTJ even more, especially the tried-and-true methods thing.
Also INFJ villains tend to like trying new methods while xNTJ villains prefer tried-and-true ones. This is obvious in Light's characteristic when he got the death note, and he doesn't believe it actually works until he carefully tests it on people. He also has back-up plans for his failure if someone caught up on his trails, very Ni+Te quality.
INTJ or ENTJ is possible, but he's definitely not an INFJ. Try to compare him to an INFJ villain like Johan Liebert from Monster and you'll see the difference. INFJ villain's M.O. usually manipulate people around them, and have selective morality, which is something a Te use wouldn't do. Ni+Te villain = no one's special and can be eliminated if it's against the plan. Ni+Fe = A certain group of selected people is preferred and more empathized, would not be eliminated.
INFJ spam have started. By 5 days it will be the leading vote.
First, I think he is a ambivertido character. A xNTJ need to make logical and practical changes in the world. He shows contempt for others. Fe is not so.
It can be anything but not INFJ. It is purely a narcissist who thinks only of himself.
You made a really good point. I'm changing my answer.
His messiah complex is as clear as daylight. His need for saving the weak, changing the world, creating a peaceful utopian perfect world, even if it means sacrificing his mind and soul. If that doesn’t scream INFJ, I don’t know what does.
“I am the God placed here to save the weak and create a perfect world.”
“This world is rotten and those who are making it rot deserve to die. Someone has to do it, so why not me? Even if it means sacrificing my own mind and soul, it’s worth it. Because the world… can’t go on like this. I wonder… what if someone else had picked up this notebook? Is there anyone out there other than me who’d be willing to eliminate the vermin from the world? If I don’t do it, then who will? That’s just it: there’s no one, but I can do it. In fact, I’m the only one who can. I’ll do it. Using the death note, I’ll change the world.”
“Only I could do it! I was well aware that killing people is crime in itself! Yet at that point it was the only way to make things right! I thought to myself that someday people will come to realize this as much, and regard it as an act of justice! I had no choice but to act as Kira… it was the destiny given to me. I was chosen to renew this rotten world, to bring about true peace… a utopia.”
But go back to any episode, especially the first ones, since he wasn’t as unhealthy and power hungry as he’ll become in the later ones due to increasing confidence, and you’ll find that his sole motivation back then was his obsession with the morality of altruism that preaches saving humanity, or what bobnickmad called the messiah complex. It’s perfectly shown in his quotes:
Markz Demerius, it’s true that Light Yagami transforms to a power hungry psychopath with a god complex, but that is always the case with almost any person who gains tremendous power. Every person wants to control the world in his own way, and many would gladly do it if given the power to do so, that’s not a trait exclusive to ENTJs or any other type.
But go back to any episode, especially the first ones, since he wasn’t as unhealthy and power hungry as he’ll become in the later ones due to increasing confidence, and you’ll find that his sole motivation back then was his obsession with the morality of altruism that preaches saving humanity, or what bobnickmad called the messiah complex. It’s perfectly shown in his quotes:
Also, Light Yagami is a very clear introvert, and a very clear Ni dominant for that matter. I can’t see how someone could consider him an extrovert at all. He’s obviously energized by spending time alone, planning, thinking about his own ideas… and his great focus is on his visions of the future, how he can get there and zen deep analysis of situations. ENTJs’ focus is on Te, and their Ni serves as a kind of fuel for it, not as a main focus. It’s true that his communication skills are great, but that’s by no means an indicator that he’s an extrovert, it’s all due to his developed Fe, which makes IXFJs kind resemble extroverts sometimes.
In addition, there are his great people’s manipulation skills and the angelic Fe image which he seems to present to society, he himself said: “Humans aren’t made perfectly. Everyone lies. Even so… I’ve been careful not to tell lies that hurt others”. That phrase is very unlikely from an xNTJ, as they don’t have that much concern with people’s feelings or how they come across to others, due to Te being high in their stack of functions. This article, which I already put a link to, perfectly explains my last points: http://mbtianimetypes.tumblr.com/post/137123761128/why-light-yagami-is-an-infj#notes
Some may say that he could be an unhealthy ENTJ who’s using his inferior function, but that’s unlikely because one of the manifestations of any inferior function is diminished effectiveness in the use of the developed dominant function. For Extraverted Thinking types, there will be a loss of ability to think logically and take effective action, or an inability to recognize the relevance of logic in a situation. That’s the opposite of Light Yagami, who perfectly uses Ni to plan ahead and to set clear goals, and supports it with Ti, which takes the role of a fault finder in the Ni plans, making Ni’s job of fixing these faults and preparing for every possible contingency much easier.
The possibility of Light Yagami being an ENTJ is as unlikely as of him being an INTJ, if not more. XNTJs have very similar views, especially in those regarding moral judgements. Proofs of that can be traced back again to Ayn Rand (INTJ) who has mentioned many times that the sole influence upon her ideas and convictions was Aristotle (ENTJ), who says : “Happiness is based on ourselves”. He holds that fulfillment and happiness are a byproduct of depending on reason and exercising it to its full potential. Those are basically the same core ideas of Ayn Rand.
Light Yagami couldn’t possibly be an INTJ, because Fi doesn’t manifest itself in a way similar to the way it does in INFJs. Fi isn’t INTJs’ shadow function, and most INTJs have pretty developed Fi, which gives them clear moral stances that are more concerned with individuality rather than anything else. Even if Fi wasn’t that developed in them, it would lead to them being highly logical, which means that their entire views on moral subjects would be as neutral as they can be. INTJs’ shadow function is Ti, which further proves that Light Yagami can’t be an INTJ, since INTJs stuck in Ti become even more logical, objective and neutral in most moral related issues.
It’s obvious that Light Yagami isn’t healthy, and that he has some kind of mental disorder. That’s why it’s impossible to normally type him as you would to another healthy character. People tend to manifest a different behavior than they normally would when they’re mentally ill, so you need to take into consideration how each personality type behaves when they aren’t healthy, because you could easily mistype them since they’ll start to manifest a function which they haven’t quite developed. There’s a great possibility that that function is their shadow function, and it’s Fi in the case of Light Yagami. That can also explain why many people thought that Light Yagami was an INFJ in the first episode, but couldn’t even entertain that idea after proceeding with the series, since his shadow function got stronger with time.
bobnickmad, your theory on Ni pressing on Fe is interesting; I can see how it would lead to a messiah complex in INFJs, but I still think that the influence of their Fi shadow function when it’s somehow triggered has a big role in them developing and manifesting unhealthy, selfish, childish behaviors and even messiah complexes, as in the case with Light Yagami and Raskolnikov. I recommend watching this video to get a better understanding of the nature of INFJs shadow function and how it can negatively affect their functional stack if they get stuck in it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRnhyTCNhv0
I think it's more ENTJ than INTJ just by the huge interest and focus that he has to change things and to rotate around it. It uses the internal world as a process aid to help get that goal, but he is very focused and external changes. He is an ENTJ who took repudiation of society and turns into Kira to change the world.
ENTJ. It does not make the world, he does so because he wants to dominate, because the world can only go forward with his actions. He wants the world to himself, wants to be God. He has no love for the people and society and harmony, he has love for an efficient society, practice, and no bandits and others who will hinder the development of a superior society. He even says he thinks the maoiria people they encountered deserved to die for being too passive and futile and no pragmatic thinking in an evolving world. What sounds more Te. Compare it with V [INFJ] and you will see the difference.
As for viewing yourself as fighting alone or with people, Light very clearly views himself as fighting with the people and for the people. His whole Kira or God image is based on the support of the millions who were seen to encourage his acts online or elsewhere. His support base was increasing which helped with his confidence in his decision. But even if he was fighting alone I don’t think that it that says much about wither he’s an INFJ or an INTJ, as I think that the two of them are perfectly capable of leading solitary revolutions or group revolutions.
Refusing the existence of a personality type’s ID is just a refusal of another small part of psychology; the same thing can be done to MBTI then, as it’s also another small part of psychology.
If you thoroughly compare Light Yagami to Raskolnikov, you’ll find out that their main desires and drives are basically the same, as they involve the passionate mission of saving humanity by sacrificing the individuals. Of course, they’re not going to be exactly alike, as there never will be two 100 % similar people of any one personality type, but Light Yagami’s core definitely resembles Raskolnikov’s more than Ayn Rand’s for example, and by core I mean their ID, which stands for impulses and desires, and which is clearly Fi in both of them. The ID concept isn’t made up, it’s part of Sigmund Freud’s structural model of the psyche, and it could well be applied to MBTI personality types, as it explains why IXTJs relate to Ti even though it’s not that high in their stack of functions, and why INXPs relate to Ni…
One last indicator that shows that he’s most likely an INFJ is his illness after committing the crime, as INFJs tend to internalize conflict into their bodies, and experience health problems when under a lot of stress.
Ayn Rand is the best example of an INTJ expressing their views on moral subjects, I highly recommend reading her books or just watching her interviews in order to get a better understanding of INTJ’s Fi judgments expressed via Te. She criticizes the dominant morality of altruism, highly encourages individualism and focuses on the individual rather than society or humanity at large, while not betraying any passion. That’s the opposite of Raskolnikov, whose basic vision is based on benefiting the masses, while sacrificing the individual. Raskolnikov’s character is full of contradictions: certainty and uncertainty about his descisions, extreme apathy and passion, moments of coldness and high emotions…
INTJs are almost the opposite of that. Their moral stances on various subjects are usually very clear, as they use Te to express them, which leads to them sounding unpassionate and very objective while defending them, even INFPs are characterized by stoicism when they’re talking about what’s important to them. All of that is because of the nature of Fi that’s usually pretty developed in both of them, unlike in INFJs.
Crime and Punishment is the perfect depiction of an INFJs’ mental processes. The whole source of Raskolnikov’s suffering is the sole idea of whether it is right to kill a few persons for the greater good of humanity, and that’s basically the closest thing to what most INFJs ponder all of their lives. The foundation of the INFJ personality type is their fascination with moral issues which no one dares to make an exact or clear judgement about. If they emotionally obsess over those ideas for a long time, they usually descend to their Fi which will provide them with a clear answer to most of their questions, and the motivation to do something in order to prove that their conclusions are right. Raskolnikov does it by killing the money-lender, but is then tormented by his Fe moral judgments, which are very gray, compared to Fi’s. At the same time, he manages to view the entire problem of ethics in a very objective and neutral manner when his emotions are out of the way sometimes, and that’s due to Ni/Ti. That’s why he fluctuates between extremes of altruism and apathy throughout the book.
Well, I don't think that someone would argue that Dostoevsky isn't an INFJ, as for Raskolnikov, I don't see any INTJ traits in him at all, he's pretty much the fictional version of Dostoevsky, and Dostoevsky is most definitely an INFJ.
bobnickmad , have you actually read the article about Fi in INFJs which they put a link to? If not, here it is : http://www.stellarmaze.com/fi-in-infjs/
ENTJ, INTJ or INFP
A lot of Fi
Light Yagami is an INFJ, and here's why: http://mbtianimetypes.tumblr.com/post/137123761128/why-light-yagami-is-an-infj
due to linebreak issues here is the socionics sorted list again: INTJ, INTP, INFJ, INFP, ISTP, ISTJ, ISFP, ISFJ, ENTP, ENFP, ENTJ, ENFJ, ESTJ, ESFJ, ESTP, ESFP
Good point about the functions Mande94. The ordering sounds about right too. Interestingly if one were to sort the types by socionics rules (shadow auxillary is the second strongest function) it would result in this (from most I to most E): INTJ,INTP,INFJ,INFP,ISTP,ISTJ,ISFP,ISFJ,ENTP,ENFP,ENTJ,ENFJ,ESTJ,ESFJ,ESTP,ESFP. I dont know if socionics is correct about the shadow aux. being 2nd or MBTI with aux being 2nd. My personal observation is that aux. and shadow aux. are usually about on par and either can be the stronger/more preferred/more used one.
In my opinion Introversion-Extraversion axis is more correlated with the functions. I guess that (from the most introverted to to most extraverted) could be: Ni>Ti>Fi>Si>Ne>Te>Fe>Se, so something like this (always from the most I to the most E): INTJ, INFJ, INTP, ISTP, INFP, ISFP, ISTJ, ISFJ, ENTP, ENFP, ENTJ, ESTJ, ENFJ, ESFJ, ESTP, ESFP. However Light is a difficult character to type, he has an introverted appearance but he's not so reserved and cold as INTJs usually are, and he has very good leadership skills (strong Te). Also I like to think that Light is an ENTJ.
5) He's also very competitive. He needs to gloat over his opponents. While most types can be competitive it is only typical for ET types.
A few more arguments for ENTJ: 1) ENs are usually less extraverted than ESs. Generally as much as introversion is concerned it seems to be IN>IS>EN>ES, with INs usually clearly introverted, ES usually clearly extraverted and IS+ENs inbetween. That's why you often find things like 'can appear like an introvert, because they talk mostly about work' for ENTJs or 'is the most introverted extravert' for ENTPs in various EN descriptions. A more extraverted INTJ would be alot more unusual than a less extraverted ENTJ. 2) Fe vs Fi. Fe: Light clearly has pretty decent Fe social skills, outwardly friendliness and emotional expressiveness. Fi: He shows very little emotional attachment towards even his closest relatives, taking even their deaths in strides. He is very cold on the inside, colder than he appears on the outside. This points to very low Fi. An INTJ with decent Fe but very low Fi would be highly unusual. For an ENTJ on the other hand that would be pretty normal (especially at Light's age). 3) Interaction with strangers. When meeting strangers he handles them pretty smoothly and unreserved. Even the most social introverts (IFJs) usually have a friendly but reserved behaviour around strangers. At lest to me he doesnt seem overly reserved around strangers. 4) His reclusiveness probably comes from being an unhealthy ennea 1 that disintigrated to 4. I think he's a 1w2 at levels 5-7. 1->4 at lvl 5 reads: "...become self-absorbed and introverted... Stay withdrawn to protect their self-image and to buy time to sort out feelings." (source: enneagraminstitute.com)
ExTJ's can develop antisocial tendencies*
He's just a ENTJ who took repudiation of today's society. It is powered by Te, so he picked up the Death Note and tested it already knew at the time what should be done and did not stay long in your inner world of planning and consequence. He thought and did. He is very good at manipulating others and socialize when it counts, it does not get defensive. Extroverts, especially ExTJ's can develop social trends, especially with a society they perceive as weak and slow. Light is an ENTJ, moved by You, and has a huge need to dominate the outside world and make everything revolve around him and be recognized for it.
Undoubtedly Light's Te is strong, but isn't his first and foremost vision about a better world comes before power hunger? I agree that he doesn't show signs of extravert, always prefers to keep to himself and sneers to the society internally while putting on a facade of a bright and diligent student. Even after he got the death note, he's surprisingly calm, saying things like "I've expected this to happen." Something an Ni-dom would say.
There are no signs of him being an extrovert if you ask me.
I honestly don't see how he could be ENTJ. It's similar to Emperor Palpatine's ENTJ vs INTJ argument, that being one of whether he has a vision or not. Palpatine is an INTJ due to his vision, and so is Light. Light isn't killing all of these people purely for the sake of fuelling his god complex, while that is something he kinda likes about it, he does it to create an entirely new world. He didn't have to, he could've lived an entirely fruitful, morally justified life, and I imagine he might've done so very well had the death note never fallen into his hands, but because he believed in his vision so purely, he went ahead with it and paid a heavy price as a result. I could see ISTJ but at the same time, that only comes into play when concerned with his incredible dedication and work ethic, but a key trademark of the INTJ is the ability to identify a useful pursuit and to work their knuckles to the bone to get it realised, which is very true for Light. Admittedly the biggest argument for ENTJ is the how he changes his plans quickly depending on the situation, but an INTJ could manage that really easily honestly. Just because someone is capable of creating malleable and changeable plans doesn't justify any level of extroversion over introversion. Plus, INTJs can learn social skills pretty easily. I'm staying by INTJ, but I'd love to hear some other arguments.
ENTJ, like Markz Demerius explained.
But it would be obvious to do things yourself. At least in the beginning. The point is that of course he could not join anyone, yet in the end did and ended up losing so. He just likes to unite with really good people who understand what is Kira. When Mikami was the only one to do so, but he still knew how to use Misa, one other girlfriend and Sakura TV. The way he acts, the obsession to dominate the outside world and control it is Te dom. An INTJ would take to act fast, would go into constant planning, and would act at least after a year when everything should be planned. Light not. Light already has an idea of what should be done; Light is obsessed by mastering the outside world; You can go fast wherever, do not need to constant reflection because he already has everything planned even for last minute, which is the case of a Ni aux. Note that most of the long-time planning it happens when it is being forced to act more. An INTJ would think of possible events would ignore some possibilities, but would provide for more obvious events - which is not the case of Light since the beginning when he was deceived by L was quite Te being challenged.
Markz Demerius, it's hard to see how Light would acts like when "he was" INTJ, because he found the Death Note in the 1st episode. My strong argument is that Light/Kira is an INTJ, because he is making one of the most important decisions of his life completely alone, and he is completely fine with that, thats the zone where he can create a details to his mastermind plans.
However, we can consider the fact that he was an INTJ which became a ENTJ when placed her hands on Death Note.
Okay, but then comes the question of Fi. It all began with reflections on the fi anime. But what is the problem? A teenager ENTJ may have several thoughts on how the world is weak. In fact his Te which made him act fast to show the world that there is a mighty God ready to punish bad people.
Near it is a good example of INTJ. He waits for the right time, plays cartardas subtle, does not exploit many possibilities and insights as L and Mello, and just create your plan and constantly believe him patiently waiting for the time to strike.
Very quick in deciding. It is impulsive at times and obsessed with a world which is dominated by it. (Te) A INTJ would be more subtle when creating plans, would think more time to do things. Light can be isolated, but it is only because he needs. It is a fully ENTJ obsessed by power.
Light Yagami is an ENTJ. The detail-oriented "Si" is nothing more than overactive Te. Te is all about things that are measurable and quantifiable. Hence reason he tested the DN twice before he used it. Hence the reason he thought himself most capable to be the god of the new world, he measured his self-worth on test scores and high IQ. Remember someone's first reaction in a situation is the key to typing them. Light's first reaction to the DN was to measure it's authenticity by putting it to the test.
I have recently typed Patrick Bateman as an ENTJ, and I believe many of the thoughts they have are very similar products of the Te-Ni-Se-Fi cognitive functions. The nearsightedness of his scopes that you see as Si could actually be the adjacent relationship of Ni-Se rather than them being divided by Te and Fi. (Te-Ni-Se-Fi > Ni-Te-Fi-Se) The dominant Te and inferior Fi combo could work well as to explain how Light would/was be able to sacrifice his family for a goal (Ni), as Te has to do with objective logic that rarely encompasses emotions. About my comparison with Dexter - Dexter spends twice as much time introverting and specifically Si-Fi-ing and if you compare him to Light, you would see a discrepancy. Light is very well capable to maintain momentum when he needs to extrovert depending on the context, whilst Dexter is very awkward and seeks distance from the situation to fully understand it. Power corrupts anyone, and whilst ENTJs would be able to handle it well enough, since natural leaders have responsibility thus power, unless it is a magical Shinigami's notebook that fuels up a God's complex like Light's, they may fail and become unhealthy types. As master of organizing and efficiency, I believe Light has had enough experience with police-men, previous Kiras, people in general maybe to know what kind of second Kiras to recruit. He knew that Teru Mikami is a routine freak who believes in law and especially Kira, (which is strange, since ISTJs wouldn't place much trust on items like Death Note. But the world we are talking about is a world conditioned by a Death Note) Nonetheless, Teru has a personal vendetta and it aligns perfectly with Light's goal. With Light as supposedly as an ISTJ, he wouldn't be able to trust someone so easily based on their claimed ideology as much as from the experience with that person, which again suggests that Light is not an ISTJ. If you can remember the anime or manga clear enough, you will also recall that some of the thought processes that we are allowed to hear about predicting something isn't really Si-Ne but Ni-Se, all the existing variables join themselves into the unconscious of the Ni user as it turns into an accurate prediction of events as an a-ha moment. A Si-Ne's thought processes I imagine would first begin with nervousness, with fear towards the future and then recalling of past data as means of trying to prepare for MULTIPLE outcomes and not one. A dominant Si user would also have trouble trusting Death Note rules and Shinigamis with a seemingly ridiculous idea of erasing his memories, something that has never been tried before, thus unlikely to be used by a dominant Si user. The guy from zombiesruineverything has more good arguments as well as a comparison between Light and Near. In light of all these arguments, Light seems like an ENTJ to me now. If he were an INTJ, he would have won, or maybe he wouldn't have used the Death Note at all.
I have changed my vote to ENTJ. It makes more sense to me now. @scotty You are right, Light never saw the "big picture" as an INTJ would, the dominant Ni would know that such changes may cause permanent and possibly unfavorable cause and effect relationships. Light is quite delighted also with the notoriety he receives (probably Se crave) whilst an INTJ may look at that as a possible danger to the masterplan. I think an INTJ would be a lot more cautious and stealthy and never use heart-attacks that seem to be caused by nothing to receive fear and infamy, had he decided to use the Death Note of course. (which again points to the boiling Se) INTJ's tertiary Fi would also be worried in self-awareness retreats, about the possible personal value corruption as a result of such a weapon of mass destruction. The dominant Ni of an INTJ would make sure that the idea survives till the very end, whilst a more likely to deviate auxiliary Ni of an ENTJ may shapeshift it into another or change it completely to fit the suggestions of Se contexts, which in the case of Light almost ended in him simply trying to kill everyone, rather than create an idealistic world. I see him now as a more of an extrovert than an introvert - for the creation of an efficient plan, ENTJs often may have to spend solitary moments, since Ni is introverted and the insights come out of nowhere. ENTJs are good at thinking on the feet as well but when they would seek better clarity, they would temporarily retreat from the world, just like ENFJs would and that is when we get a glimpse of Light's introverting and his genius combination of Te and Ni. Maybe his reluctance to initially socialize with the world comes from his seeing himself as an intellectual type who doesn't deserve the time of others. Besides, everyone is eager to support the idea of a seemingly more outgoing INTJ, (Petyr Baelish) why not have the idea of a less outgoing ENTJ as well? Francis Underwood's soliloquys from House of Cards may sometimes give impression of introversion, that's why he was typed as an INTJ before. (when he is an ENTJ) I was wondering why Light's Fi is so weak as an INTJ, and I think the answer may be that it is an inferior function and Te is what drives him around predominantly. After extended usage of the Death Note, he had become more introverted and self-focused. Had he not received the Death Note, he probably could have risen through the ranks of law enforcement as an efficient leader like his father which is a good argument for Si-Te, but not enough to outweigh Te-Ni in my opinion. That "connection to the world" you speak of could be a point for ENTJ's Te and Se extroverting mode, where in contrast to L an INTP and Near an INTJ are more disconnected and self-absorbed in their worlds of ideas and possibilities.
I also think one of the key things about Light was he was more "connected" with the direct world around him in a way that sensors would be expected, unlike the more classic INT's Near and L. And anyone would be likely to consider the larger "big picture" impacts of using a Death Note had they received it - it's just that Light's considerations were hardly developed relative to his supposed intelligence, which would not make sense for an Ni user which would have that as their strength and focus.
@Chris, the problem is that Light never really saw the "big picture". He grew up in a cop household so it seems very plausible that he was fixing the problems he had long heard about in a sense of carrying out justice, and it was the immense power of his notebook that ultimately fueled his God complex. I think we've really got to consider what Light was prior to him receiving the Death Note, a near perfect "Gary Stu" type regimented to working within the system. And when he chooses someone to act as Kira, he chooses the guy who thinks the most similar to him in his estimation: a nearly universally regarded ISTJ. I understand where you're going with the Dexter comparison, but Light also failed to see beyond the more direct outcomes that would unfold right infront of him. I think it's also key that when comparing Dexter to Light you mention that Light has the weapon to eradicate the scum. If Dexter had that weapon, things may have unfolded very differently, but instead he was cornered into preoccupying himself with meticulously committing physical murders and covering up his tracks. We really don't know what Dexter would be like had he picked up a Death Note.
Light's delusions about being smarter than everyone else and able to outsmart everyone else; his delegation of power to an idiot based on the sole criteria of loyalty and adoration of Light; and Light's definition of and thirst for power being the absence of opposition make him a typical overly empowered ENTJ. Any ENTJ put in a position of limitless power tends toward dictatorship and eventually develops a belief they are a god. Near, an INTJ, is able to better predict Light's strategies because he understands that Light is motivated not by achievement or an authentic desire to create world peace, but by power and power alone. Near seeks the power to develop a plan that can ensnare Light, and takes pride in his correct analysis of Light that allows for a plan to ensnare him in a web. Near is motivated by being the designer of the plot to trap and conquer Light--and he is most happy his plan worked, not that Light is killed.
*okay "overshadowing" is not the word I wanted to use. The abstraction with his name is foretelling his intents and relationship with the world. Also I think an ISTJ would be less likely to sacrifice his family, than an INTJ. (sorry INTJs) But it is the functions, Si-Fi holds them closer to the heart as a part of the past whilst Ni-Fi is more likely to go away from the "family" concept, towards sacrifices for the big picture.
Seems like an INTJ to me. You can find better arguments than mine below, they don't necessarily need to be brought back. Well, here it goes: @ scotty I think INTJs would kill off everything, which includes the small scum. I think a big theme for Ni doms is purification, he just wants to clear off the dirt from the road leading to his throne, which he will then control people with fear of authority as a God. Maybe ISTJs would have such aspirations, but they would be a lot more grounded in this regard, they would go around and do their job/duty because that is as far as their perception goes. (I apologize if it sounds like an offensive stereotype, but what I mean is that their dominant Si is the only thing that matters, everything as it was, and any change as a possible threat) Light saw the light at the end of a dirty tunnel, he is in this regard the opposite of ISTJ. Sure you would say that Si would remember the past being less crime abundant, but Si would also cause adaptation to the world. An old man like Light's father probably remembers better times and sighs, but Light is just in his twenties, he literally just got born, saw the world and generated a future out of the pre-existing patterns. He hates the status quo and he would like to go above it, his own way. Seems pretty clear Ni to me and not Si. I am not sure if INTJs would agree in this regard, but their future planning is meticulous when their life and goal is on the line, we have seemingly typed right many characters who used these patterns as INTJs, I am not sure what idea proposed ISTJ for you. Light is an INTJ with still developing Fi that makes him look like an ENTJ. INTJs would know better that the future needs them healthy and present for a long time which gives them enough of a motivation to engage in Se activities like sports for instance. Ni also sacrifices a lot of present needs for a better future. An ISTJ would truly be afraid of future, but his planning would be Si-Ne, controlled future, Light's planning is Ni-Se, bringing possibilities down to a future outcome and execution. He saw the vision of him being a God, and he went on to execute it. Compare him also to Dexter, who is an ISTJ, Dexter is meticulous but in the series he doesn't plan as far as Light and sometimes he fails to see outcomes. He lives his day by day life, confronting enemies as they come, whilst Light is an idealist who wants a world without crime, and he has the weapon to eradicate the scum. This is why Dexter is nervous whilst Light is relaxed and confident about what will happen. He can't be a sensor in my view, going to go with the mainstream opinion on this one. Even his name suggests it "Light" that gets amplified in all the "darkness of this world", this abstraction is overshadowing his intents and relationship with the world. INTJ for me, too much power blinds and corrupts anyone.
He is infp 3w4
Voted changed to ISTJ. Would change if someone presents a better argument. :p
Ditto that for ENTJ and INFJ and everything except ISTJ. ENTJ would probably even be *less* likely to do that. The more I think about it, the more it becomes clearer that he is a clear-cut ISTJ.
Also if you give a Death Note to 1000 INTJs, 99% of them would either not use them at all, or look at the big picture and use it to truly shape the world by killing certain powerful people. What kind of INTJ would pick up the Death Note and then start researching every single minor criminal they thought was scum, so they can put them to justice?
I can see that now. Thanks
But I'm talking about his philosophy and vision, not the nearsightedness of goals (he actually plans extremely far ahead, with superhuman meticulousness), which is why Si-dom makes perfect sense.
The only type I can associate relative nearsightedness of goals to would be Se-doms and that too not a bad thing because because they are master freewheeling opportunist i.e more adept at taking the opportunity in hand more easily than other types. I would not think an ISTJ would be short sighted, on the contrary due to Si-domness and an inherent fear of future they are more likely to take a planned and thorough approach for a sustainable future, the vision may very well be grounded but its not short sighted. In contrast to INTJs who are very comfortable with their visions and therefore while their vision can be leaps and bounds ahead of ISTJ and sometimes very flighty too, it may sometimes lack the precision of execution.
An INTJ with his supposed intelligence would never bury himself so deeply in such a short-sighted philosophy, precisely because he is a "Rational".
Temperament is NT (Rational). XNTX. J versus P he shows a distinct preference for Judging, so XNTJ. The Extraversion/Introversion is the most difficult; however, he doesn't lose energy around others like Introverts, thus Extravert it is. ENTJ.
For a start, he's introverted, without a doubt. He never socializes for enjoyment and purely does so to take advantage of people who respect him, that only being for his being attractive and very smart. Additionally, being Kira would require huge lengths of time purely in one's own company, something an extravert would hugely struggle with, perhaps lacking the conviction to follow through in the tremendous task that being Kira is that an INTJ would have. Additionally, during the first episode and after he forgets about the Death Note, he goes from being Kira to Light Yagami, a person with very strong ethics and a very strict moral code to live by. Treat people equally, never lie if it will result in emotional consequence, and so it seems obvious that for this duration, Light Yagami is an INFJ, however, when he becomes Kira in episode 2 he is fully prepared to kill his own family for the greater good of mankind, something an INFJ would never be able to do due to their emphasis on ethics and doing the morally right thing.
Myself, I'll always class light as an INFJ for the duration of the first episode, and by the second he is a fully fledged INTJ.
I put him in INFJ because I see him in the Ni-Ti loop, and isn't tuned with his Fe, thus his ideal world and idea of himself as God makes sense to him. I could sense both Ti and Te in him. There is hardly any Fi in him. His values are based on his rationalization of his ideal world. He is extremely manipulative. He is an idealist and cynic. He was pissed of the world and tried to control the world according to his ideals. If he was an INTJ, he would have more interest in impersonal things rather than controlling the world and changing the society.
Ni types, especially someone so supposedly "genius" as Light, would have a much more nuanced worldview and even someone like Anders Breivik had a manifesto. I think people assume that if you're smart and tricky you've gotta be N, but that's not true.
the problem with that analysis is there's too much effort comparing Light to Near. Of course Light is more extroverted than Near, but not only is EVERYONE more extroverted than Near, but a lot of the arguments apply more to S vs. N than E vs. I - putting effort into how you're perceived by people, dressing well, black and white morality, etc. I stick by ISTJ. He's Dexter Morgan basically.
I think he's a derailed ISTJ actually. STJ are more likely to have his attitude than any other type.
He is an ENTJ and Near is an INTJ. Mello is an ENFP.
Yes I agree scotty I was aiming at others who said he was ENTJ because of the whole "God of the new world" thing which I'd expect more from an INTJ, ENTJs might be more power hungry but it's out of a need for more and more efficiency and getting things done than any narcissism. ENTJs are basically power hungry out of an instinctual ubercompetitiveness, whereas the INTJ has the whole "God among insects" thing to which INFJs are also prone. The other narcissistic type is the ENFJ but their brand of narcissism is very different to the Ni-doms and is what I call "I am the crowd" narcissism (correct me if I'm wrong any ENFJs out there). I don't mean to offend anyone and I don't see narcissism as a particularly bad thing as long as it is managed. It's the Ni-dom narcissism than gives that grandeur feeling and sometimes grand delusions like what Light had.
Most ENTJs aren't crazed like Napoleon, but I do think there's a lot of times where Light does cross more into extroverted territory. He's somewhere between Near (obvious INTJ) and Mello (obvious ENTJ), but I guess overall he leans more INTJ.
He was too patient for ENTJ, look at Napoleon, the mistakes he made were due to too much rushing, Napoleon was a very impatient person who wanted to see results constantly which is why he constantly went to the lines to check. Te is action but Ni is strategy, it's the most strategizing of the functions and Light at all times has a preference for strategy as to be expected of a Ni-dom. He likes to see it in action too but he's awfully patient. He wanted a grand problem to strategize and solve before he even picked up the book.
INTJ both with the notebook and without. ENTJs are more power hungry but INTJs are more likely to develop god-complexes as it's the Ni that creates the complex. This is the reason that INTJs are far more narcissistic than ENTJs.
INTJ when he doesn't have the notebook, ENTJ when he does?
How did he get typed Sp/So? Wtf.
He is ENTJ
Yagami Light-ENTJ (I've heard INTJ but given his 'god complex' and ways of dealing with people- you see more of a power-hungry, highly intelligent, and charismatic ENTJ than an INTJ. An extravert doesn't have to be a lover of people- especially an Extraverted Rational).
NTJ, yes. But I think 1 is questionable. He seems more 3w4 to me. Yes, he has a huge sense of justice but I think it's worth noting that as soon as he got the Death Note his first thought was that he could become "god of the new world." Also, he's not hard on himself AT ALL. In fact, I think his ego is more inflated than anything. He also knows how to manipulate his image for the sake of his own advancement. Oh, and not sp/so. He's clearly conta-flow, and I refuse to accept that anyone willing to kill off his own sister isn't social-last. He doesn't seem to care about structural harmony at all in this respect, and only uses his bonds for his own advancement.
I really wonder if he is not an F ...
INTJ à coup sûr, il n'a rien d'un F, il tend un peu vers le E et le S mais reste quand même majoritairement INTJ dans son fonctionnement.
les INTJs 1 paraissent souvent ENTJ, étant donné que ce dernier ennéatype est corrélé avec le Te
Et surtout Fi inférieur > Aucun scrupule pour manipuler les autres et mener à bien ses stratégies, peu d'empathie, aucun attachement émotionnel si ce n'est pour lui-même et "l'idéal" absolutiste vers lequel il tend, un monde débarrassé du mal et des criminels...
Dans la lignée des éléments que j'ai réunis concernant les ENTJ, il apparaît effectivement être Te dom, avec un marquage plus NTJ (NT-NJ), et dès lors une apparence plus introvertie.
Pour moi clairement Te dom, le Ni est simplement en soutien pour élaborer sa vision des choses. Et il est tout sauf F.
Je suis vraiment le seul à le liker ?
Les raisons pour lesquelles je ne crois pas du tout en INFJ ont déjà pas mal été précisées par Phaedren sur le forum... <br>Je précise que quand j'ai écrit ça ici, je n'avais pas vu le message en question sur le forum.
Ben j'suis d'accord.
Je vais faire mon 9 mais vous pouvez typer Light INFJ et Kira ENTJ, et si vous faîtes la synthèse vous avez INTJ. Comme ça ceux qui disent INFJ, ENTJ et INTJ sont tous contents !
Nan mais c'juste qu'il faut faire la distinction Light sans carnet (pour moi INFJ) et avec (INTJ). Après c'est sur que c'est pas forcement évident. Pour le 4w5 effectivement par contre je pense pas mais je me basais sur des détails correspondants, pas l'ensemble, je l'avoue.
En quoi ce ne serait pas clair ?<br>"C'est un exemple typique d'incompréhension du MBTI" ._.<br>Explique mieux.
Je vois... Un jour, j'avais aussi failli m'étrangler en trouvant un site où ils typaient Theon Greyjoy 4.
En fait ce genre de typage me rappelle ce tumblr : http://mbti--junkie.tumblr.com/. Faux à hauteur de 50% je dirai, et je suis gentille.
Ah oui. Complètement à côté de la plaque en effet! xD
Ce n'était pas clair effectivement. Je voulais parler de celui qui considérait que Light était INFJ.
Quel rapport avec l'auteur? J'ai pas trop compris ce que tu veux dire.
Je viens de lire le topic consacré à death note sur le forum, et là je vois Light INFJ 4w5... C'est un exemple typique d'incompréhension du MBTI, puisque je suppose que l'auteur connait parfaitement le manga.
on ne peut pas le disliké lui !
J’hésite avec ENTJ.
Oui, après c'est sûr que ça peut porter à discussion !
Je parlais plutôt de sa vision du monde, les gens à dominante (Ni) ont une vision du monde qui leur est assez personnelle et en général centré sur leur introversion (comme Exil, Chase, ... par exemple). <BR> Le gens à dominantes de fonction extravertie, comme le (Te), ont en général plutôt une vision du monde tourné vers l'exterieur.<BR> C'est également d'ailleur ce qui distingue les Exxx et les Ixxx.<BR> Apres pour Light c'est vrai que cela peut porter à discussion je suis d'accord, même si je pense plus vers le I <BR> Et toi, tu es clairement ENTJ je trouve, ça se voit énormément sur le chat :)
Ni n'a selon moi que peu de rapport avec le fait d'être centré sur soi-même. Dieu sait combien d'ENTJ et même d'autres types sont très axés sur eux-mêmes, sans avoir Ni en fonction dominante, sans avoir ou Ni du tout. De plus, je ne vois pas en quoi dans l'élaboration de ses plans et de leur exécution tu vois du I. D'ailleurs, je ne vois pas du tout en quoi on peut voir si c'est I ou E dans la façon d’élaborer le plan. C'est plutôt ce qui permet de voir qu'il est NTJ. Il est extrêmement Te avant tout, tout passe dans l'exécution de son plan, il est prêt à sacrifier tout le monde, même son père pour y parvenir. Il dit que seul lui peut parvenir à cette mission qu'est celle de nettoyer ce monde pourri et se focalise sur ça. Je trouve Light bien plus E que je ne le suis de surcroît, alors que les tests me donnent souvent ENTJ xD
Même si il est sociable, il a tout du personnage introveri : dans son élaboration des plans, leur exécution, .... <BR> Sa façon de voir le monde est également très très centré sur lui même (Ni) bien avant (Te) à mon avis.
Je suis d'accord avec Phaedren, il a un E assez développé et arrive à bien l'utiliser pour arriver à ses fins !
Ceux qui disent INTJ n'ont pas du lire le même manga. Le mec il a plein d'amis, très extraverti, grand orateur, fait des discours, il est populaire et tout, se sert des autres pour parvenir à ses fins, a le côté typique de l'ENTJ grisé par le pouvoir et tenté par le Dark Side. INTJ c'est Near pas Light...
Il est difficilement typables , tout au long de la série il alterne entre 3 types . je juge le 1 comme étant son type le plus pertinent avant sa route vers la folie .
INTJ 3w4 Sp/Sx <BR> Mais 1 est possible
INTJ 1w9 so- sp/sx