Politic, Economic and Law World
Absent or broken pic
Politic, Economic and Law World
Absent or broken pic
ENFJ? ESFP? What now mate?
Yeah I've heard the ESFP argument from Socionics freaks before, I don't buy it either. Here's what I found on Wikipedia: "He was an innovator in using the financial, bureaucratic, and diplomatic resources of France. He could rapidly dictate a series of complex commands to his subordinates, keeping in mind where major units were expected to be at each future point, and like a chess master, "seeing" the best plays moves ahead. Napoleon maintained strict, efficient work habits, prioritizing what needed to be done.
For some reason, the Socionics functions seem like scrambled versions of the MBTI functions: Socionics Se = MBTI Te Socionics Si = MBTI Se Socionics Fi = MBTI Si Socionics Fe = MBTI Fi Socionics Ti = MBTI Ni Socionics Te = Same Socionics Ne = Same Socionics Ni = N/A
The only other person I know of who typed Napoleon as ESFP was Aushra Augusta, the founder of Socionics.
I don't know how we can arrive to type Hannibal as a Ni dom (aka the worst strategist the world ever had, the guy all in tactics) and Napoleon as a Ni inf - not only a tactician but also a brillant strategist, with all the cohesive way he orientated his politic and his battles towards concrete goals and a clear vision.
In fact his "introverted" behavior when he was young is due to social exclusion. One should have in mind the context, a young and poor Corsican put in an aristocratic military school away from his family with all the tension (even xenophobia) between French and Corsican (Corsica became part of France only one year before Napoleon's birth). With all the bad treatment he had (other youngsters mocking his french, his appearance etc), the only option he had left was to withdraw himself in libraries to study. The French Revolution was his chance, all the social limitation France knew before were abolish (at least a great part of them because Napoleon worked pretty hard on this field, so that people could only be valued by competence, not by some social class). And many of the changes he brought are until now present in many societies.
Haha, that sounds so ridiculously Te-dom, lol. I can't see an ESFP acting like that, they're generally chill. Also, there's no way this guy was Ni inferior. He didn't just conquered a bunch of countries, he changed the face of Europe. In this way he was very much like Caesar and unlike many other conquerers in history, he changed the political systems of the places conquered, not just conquered them. Te-Se makes allot of sense, it's quite a turbulent combination.Plus, like someone said below he had issues with socializing when he was young, and if anything ESFP are one the most socially adaptable types, specially when young. ENTJs on the other hand might not know how to be laid-back or relate to other children which might lead to behavioral introversion, until they develop their social skills enough.Also, if he has both characteristics of INTJ and of ESFP, it would make more sense that he was ENTJ, since they can share characteristics of both types, more INTJ-ish when in touch Ni, more ESFP-ish when in touch with Se.Can't see an young ESFP dedicating himself to study over socializing, it's just not in their nature.
At his school as a child, each student was given a plot of yard to study in. He took over his neighboring yards, built a fence around them, and fought off the other boys with a shovel.
Caesar: ENTJ Napoleon: ESFP Hannibal: INTJ
ESFP, reason: (Compare him to the ENTJ Caesar) Emotionally turbulent (ex. smashing the kig of austria's tea set shouting "THIS WILL BE YOUR EMPIRE" pissed of Se-Fi with uncontroled Te, also can be seen in his battle tactics which were strong Te yes, but in a "all of nothing" Se manner. Notice how the paintings of him focus on sensory expression (compare the "crossing of the alps" paintings).
*I see him more as an ENTJ because it seems Se was very strong with him
As for an INTJ military leader in history, it would compared to Napoleon, someone who fought fewer battles, in less varied conditions, but choose them very well for the maximum strategic result. I don't know the name of that person, but that would be the general direction to look for one.
As for behavioral introversion in childhood, I can see this with an ENTJ if they haven't developed their charisma or some kind of social subtility.The Te-Ni combination is a very forceful one, and without a certain level of social subtility that one develops with age, it may not play too well in the social scene, as it can create an overtly blunt, domineering, and well, lacking in subtlety individual.I think you could compare him with Twyin from Game of Thrones, people say he's INTJ because he lacks in sociability, but there's quite an important factor that makes him ENTJ over INTJ: his decision making process is quick, giving several commands at a time, it has an over-view, but also needs immediate results.About Napoleon:''He could rapidly dictate a series of complex commands to his subordinates, keeping in mind where major units were expected to be at each future point'' .That is Te over Ni. Ni over Te is a slower and more patient process, but also with a greater foresight.It seems than for Napolean, there was a conflict between a long term fore-sight and a more risky one, needing more immediate results, which sounds like Ni and Se being quite close together. So overall, his leadership style seemed Te over Ni backed up with Se.
I see him more as an ENTJ, but it seems that Se was very strong with him.He was very in on the battlefield, an INTJ I would suspect would either save himself for few crucial occasions, or take a more back-ground position trying to influence things more from behind the scenes, in order to not have to put himself too much in the midst of the actual action, due to inferior Se.Some descriptions of Napoleon:''British general Wellington: "I used to say of him (Napoleon) that his presence on the field made the difference of 40,000 men." Few, if any, commanders, before or since, fought more wars and battles under more varied conditions of weather, terrain, and climate, and against a greater variety of enemies than the French Emperor.'' That sound like really strong Se, not the unreliable inferior one.Sure, an INTJ who wants to develop his Se can use it very well in crucial moments but ''few, if any commander before or since,fought more wars and battles under more varied conditions of weather, terrain and climate, and against a greater variety of enemies than the French Emperor.'' That sounds like a very adaptable person, and if there's one thing that separates ENTJs form INTJs, is this level of adaptability that the tertiary Se gives.
Not ENTJ. Most here like to use stereotypes to enter historical or fictitious figures. You know why he's not ENTJ? Here is my review of Napoleon: He spent his teenage years training the art of military strategy and avoided social contact; he was quite reserved and quiet in social relations and in fact had no social skills, so he had to ask for help to Talleyrand. For me this is clearly INTJ!
Napoleon and Caesar are synonymous with extroverted thinking. Very appropriate representations of ENTJ.
Whoever broke the 51 vote streak: No, Napoleon was not an INTJ.
Napoleon Bonaparte was a French military and political leader who rose to prominence during the latter stages of the French Revolution and its associated wars in Europe. <BR><BR> As Napoleon I, he was Emperor of the French from 1804 to 1815, the first monarch of France bearing the title emperor since the reign of Charles the Fat (881–887). His legal reform, the Napoleonic Code, has been a major influence on many civil law jurisdictions worldwide, but he is best remembered for his role in the wars led against France by a series of coalitions, the so-called Napoleonic Wars. He established hegemony over most of continental Europe and sought to spread the ideals of the French Revolution, while consolidating an imperial monarchy which restored aspects of the deposed Ancien Régime. Due to his success in these wars, often against numerically superior enemies, he is generally regarded as one of the greatest military commanders of all time, and his campaigns are studied at military academies worldwide. <BR><BR> Napoleon was born at Ajaccio in Corsica in a family of noble Italian ancestry which had settled Corsica in the 16th century. He trained as an artillery officer in mainland France. He rose to prominence under the French First Republic and led successful campaigns against the First and Second Coalitions arrayed against France. He led a successful invasion of the Italian peninsula. <BR><BR> In 1799, he staged a coup d'état and installed himself as First Consul; five years later the French Senate proclaimed him emperor, following a plebiscite in his favour. In the first decade of the 19th century, the French Empire under Napoleon engaged in a series of conflicts—the Napoleonic Wars—that involved every major European power. After a streak of victories, France secured a dominant position in continental Europe, and Napoleon maintained the French sphere of influence through the formation of extensive alliances and the elevation of friends and family members to rule other European countries as French vassal states. <BR><BR> The Peninsular War and the invasion of Russia in 1812 marked turning points in Napoleon's fortunes. His Grande Armée was badly damaged in the campaign and never fully recovered. In 1813, the Sixth Coalition defeated his forces at Leipzig; the following year the Coalition invaded France, forced Napoleon to abdicate and exiled him to the island of Elba. Less than a year later, he escaped Elba and returned to power, but he was defeated at the Battle of Waterloo in June 1815. Napoleon spent the last six years of his life in confinement by the British on the island of Saint Helena. An autopsy concluded he died of stomach cancer, but there has been some debate about the cause of his death, as some scholars have speculated that he was a victim of arsenic poisoning.
Look at me!!! I'm French!!!!
Je suis convaincu que Napoléon n'est pas du tout du type 8, mais du type 3, c'est un battant dans une certaine magnificence qui a été non pas en quête de vérité ou d'altruisme (comme un 8) mais dans une quête d'authenticité et d'exceptionnalité. Il a correspondu à l'image du chef-empereur que voulaient les Français. S'il était dans le contrôle c'est avant tout le contrôle d'une image dans laquelle il a réalisé son authenticité. De plus, intégré en 6 il était redouté pour le courage et la foi qu'il sut communiquer à ses soldats. Il a les défauts du 3 : opportunisme, recherche avide de réussite sans jamais savoir s'arrêter ce qui n'est pas le cas du 8 qui accepte de perdre, Napoléon ne perdait jamais, c'est un gagnant !
Et sa femme? Josephine? Typique ENFP non? ENFP/ENTJ le grand classique dans l'histoire, comme Louis 14 et la Monstepan? Bref ENFP la parfait femme trophee des NTJ.
Abdsolument. Bon faut dire que j'ai aucun admiration particulière pour Buonaparte.
Attendez, même Speed est pour ENTJ là, ça doit être ça!
Un ENTJ qui ne s'appuie sur son "NI" que pour comprendre ce qu'il contrôle ; pas pour s’enivrer de sa propre vision. Ca reste donc un ENTJ "de base"... peut-être "désintégré" en ESTP par endroits.
ENTJ, pas ESTP. Trop rigide ce mec. Un fou du contrôle.
En quoi est-ce que ça disqualifie l'hypothèse ENTJ ?
L'opportunisme avant tout. L'avidité de richesse. La faible considération pour la nature humaine (et ne pas tenir compte de l'humanité de ses soldats, surtout si on en a plein en réserve, fait de grands chefs de guerre). "Ma politique est de gouverner les hommes comme le grand nombre veut l'être… C'est me faisant catholique que j'ai fini la guerre de Vendée, en me faisant musulman que je me suis établi en Égypte, en me faisant ultramontain que j'ai gagné les prêtres en Italie. Si je gouvernais un peuple de Juifs, je rétablirais le temple de Salomon."