Johan Liebert (Monster)
Cartoons and Manga Characters
Absent or broken pic
Cartoons and Manga Characters
Absent or broken pic
While I agree that in a way he's more of a symbol of some aspect of humanity Urasawa wanted to show others and reflect on it than a real character, he never really changes types during the show. He's always someone attuned to other people's feelings to Fe and knows the best way of manipulating said feelings through Ni. Take the extreme nihilism out of the equation, and he's pure INFJ. He doesn't rationalize his behavior through Fe because his only rationale is purely Ni devoid of any judging value, and if he had any judging value it would be still more F than T, negative value judgements rather than negative thinking ones. Still, the way he interacts with people is through immediate understanding of their emotions and values, Fe.
To be completely honest, I don't think it's even possible to define Johan's personality, and that was probably urasawa's intention. Johan was supposed to represent the elusive, ever-present evil in the world which, try as they might, humans will never be able to eliminate. You never really see things from his perspective or get any insight on how his mind actually works (or if you do, it's not anywhere near enough to make a complete judgement) because doing that would go against his function in the story, which is not so much that of a character (Which I don't mean in a bad way) as it is a force of nature, some intangible entity of which the depth of our understanding can only reach as far as coming to terms with the fact that we will never *really* understand him. In essence, what I'm saying is you can't type Johan because of the intentionally mysterious way the story portrays him. He's like an XXXX. If the story actually gave insight into his thought process, maybe you could, but even then I'd suspect the closest you could get would be like an INXX. I used to have a friend who had borderline personality disorder, and her MBTI results would fluctuate between INTJ and ENTP every time she took the test. I think a similar result would occur if Johan actually did the test, but even more extreme. He'd probably get a different result every time.
"He literally absorbed his sisters emotions that he thought they were his!" -> This is apprehension . This is perception. This would be Ni so, not Fe. Fe is rationnalist and have to apply rules on external world. "Also, this guy is basically evil Kowaru/ evil Jesus! And everything from the way he speaks and carries himself is very INFJ." Heuh, tt's not an argument. P.S. : He's not evil. He's just "Par delà bien et mal".
He literally absorbed his sisters emotions that he thought they were his! Also, this guy is basically evil Kowaru/ evil Jesus! And everything from the way he speaks and carries himself is very INFJ.
The messages that Johan sent to Tenma, are like a call for help.
No, in fact, this "intellectualisation" of emotions would be the result of Ni's apprehension. Te/Fe would only apply this in the external world.
I think you mistype Fe for emotional manipulation. Look the case of Amy Dunne. Te can absolutely do the same thing. The two are able to process to an "intellectualisation" of emotions. The difference is Fe work with Ti and Te with Fi. Fe will struggle to learn Ti and Te will struggle to learn Fi. Most of the time, Fe users are unable to create theirs own values. They apprend external values and apply them. They would be completely unable to understand the process of Fi. It's not de case of Johan. He's trying to create his own values but he clearly struggle to compose with Fi because Fi isn't his first or second function. It even explain his interest and attraction to Tenma, a Fi-dom.
Everything about him reduces to using Ni-Fe to pick on people motivations, win their trust and make them open to him, than break them emotionally. If you take mirality out of the equation, he's one of the most INFJ characters ever. He took in so much of his sisters emotions that he tought he was the one who experienced them.That's pure Fe. He is improbable for sure and unreslistic, but it's a mind experiment of how a pure empath with zero compassion would look like if such thing would be possible.
Finaly, I come back to what I said earlier. Johan is an improbable character, probably impossible to type. But I think his case should be compared with the case of Amy Dunne. He has big problems with Fi. Probably, an misplaced Fi-tert or Inf. He has difficulty in combining notions of values, he has always been in conflict with external values. Not like the INFJ who easily apprehends the values that are inculcated. Altogether, he has no Fe. From the beginning, the wanderings and plans of Johan resemble the construction of Fi. A Ni-Ti loop does not look like this, a Ni-Ti loop would look like a man who has lost faith and who would turn into a rigid and bitter preceptor. Typically the kind of old man who spends his time complaining about all everything, society, people, modernity, the loss of old values, etc. A man unable to move forward. This is what Fe-Ti conflict would look like. Johan is xNTJ.
INFJ 4w5, OFC.
He has no feelings ?? He is totally sentimental and idealistic! He has an enormous capacity for empathy and knows how to use it with precision! You must be an idiot INTJ who wants all the fucking characters to be INTJs just like you.
Are you on drugs? How can someone who doesn't have feelings be a feeler?
Definitely INFJ. Johan has one goal in mind, which is to be the last one standing when the world ends. He is also a gifted manipulator and is very good at bringing out the "monster" in others.
'' Johan is said to find enjoyment from "...exploiting the hatred that is born when people come together." ''A very good definition of a very twisted Fe.
''It's weird, but I feel I could tell you anything.'' A young student who just met Johan. Soon after, he takes a blind man by the hand and makes him see the scene he once loved. He's a natural confident/counselor type who otherwise might have used his abilities to heal people; but something cause his empathy to shut down.
And I think he has some conscience (Fi as 6th function) left in him, but it's only subconscious, so he tried to "reach out" to Tenma (INFP), who he sees as his redemption and punishment. Something like "look at me, look at me, the monster inside me has grown this large" is actually meant for Tenma as his conscience crying for help, because he couldn't stop himself consciously, because he's a crazy man, of course. I think I need to remind you all that all of his actions are because he's a psychopath who use Ni-Fe-Ti, not because he's an INFJ.
He's a twisted person overall, so all of his functions will show mostly twisted sides of them (this applies to every type as well). And yes it's true, the inside story or creepy fairytale is the defining moment in Johan's psyche because it's the showcase that reflects his inner emptiness, the lack of the sense of self (that's why he did everything, it's as if to find himself based on some psychopathic logic, but it's still Ni-Fe-Ti, no mistakes). After that, the even lead to the climax of the story when he's in the grip of Se (the massacre of the village, if I'm not mistaken). I guess the whole story itself is basically a mental journey of an INFJ, and I think since Urasawa himself is one, he's very good at creating a character like Johan.
Now this one is an INFJ villian--makes sense. He's not very rational compared to xNTJ character like Light Yagami. Johan's haunted by his 6th function Fi which works as his conscience, and that's why he tried to send message to Tenma because Tenma is an Fi-dom and in his subconscious, his redemption.
Wow, the discussion in the page is really deep and interesting. Brb.
But I understand he is Ni-Fe. He was born with a natural charm and empathy and a certain distance, I could use the charisma efficiently. Not developed the ability in time, he was born with that ability '' telepathic '. But there have to see that Fi-Ne brainwashed could do something like the internal interpretation, creating a mistaken identity.
Do you think a Fi-Ne could not create such an interpretation?
Ne-Si well trained could do the same. Look possibilities and create connections and prepare using reliable data. But I also think that whoever mystery is something Ni. But I guess Fi (idealizade empathy with strong interpretation) and Si would be a very strong role in it, even also seeing Fe.
more INFJ than INFP*
It is really difficult to understand how the process Fe and Fi. Fe is natural empathy, but Fi is a rather idealized and internal empathy, which makes a person act like something you're not. Anyway ... I think Johan is more than INFJ INFP but INFP is not far behind not. The real problem is that I believe the character has great connection with their shadows functions, which hinders further.
But to be honest, Si is a function that also combines quite it.
Finally, Johan, if I'm not mistaken, does not seem to get something for himself, he wants to go away with his own existence and is indifferent to the focused sentimental satisfaction in itself. What makes me think Johan is INFJ, even being somewhat similarly to Kabuto.
This site says that Johan is INFP: http://funkymbtifiction.tumblr.com/post/139013955654/monster-johan-liebert-infp Thinking on that side, he remembers quite Kabuto, which I believe is one INFP. The Fi Kabuto idealizes and values Orochimaru in him, so that when Orochimaru died he wanted to inject parts of Orochimaru within yourself to get into a conflict with yourself and get your higher self within Orochimaru. What is similar to what Johan makes his sister. However, Johan is so empty of yourself seeking an end, while Kabuto, search your exceed to recreate a satisfaction.
Not really much rule out the side of Ne-Fi shadow because it could add to the inner monster, but what I see is an expression and concentrated unrealistic idealization with a huge capacity for empathy to seek connection to the outside feeling and in some so, seek a conflict with Tenma and Anna to find their idealization. Anyway, I do not know if I'm wrong a long time I watched the show. I'll probably watch it again when you have more time or read the manga to see if I add more information.
Not to mention that he's thinking at the end of its existence, a satisfaction out of reality, which for him, the world would be better. I can not imagine Ni-Te think so, mainly Fi loop, where the feeling for himself would be more concentrated, but is always looking for external idealization for the new beginning. What might seem Ne, but everything was directed by Ni connected with a distorted Fe.
INTJs can be great emotional handlers, and yes Fi can connect with the feelings of others, especially to appreciate, however, Fi is seeking a breakthrough to yourself when trying to go to others, INTJ's too. Johan is empty of itself, has no sense of identity and was born with an enormous capacity for empathy, and it ended up distorting it. He does not want anything for himself, he wants to clear the land and find something fanciful and ideal for him and for his sister, however, Tenma search something in an attempt to stop it, the monster inside him. He is a INFJ with Ti very well developed. A cruel version of Jesus.
Not to mention that INTJs are quite charismatic and can be great emotional manipulators. There's many INTJ who identify with Johan Liebert
And what prevents Fi do the same to appreciate something special? I have seen many INFP's do it.
He is INFJ because he handles the feelings of others? Where it was shown that INTJ's can not the same?
INTJ Ni-Fi loop
INFJ; Enigmatic, haunting eyes, can see through human's weakness. He has strong connection to his subconscious.
I can't see why evil must be a T. He could be an unhealthy Ni-user, most likely supported with Fe. I've seen him typed as INFJ in Ni-Ti loop and it's pretty credible.
I vote INFJ because he operated almost purely through emotional manipulation.
@Apocalypse, that was alright but your comparison to him and Hitler seems kinda bleh on purpose to shoot down INFJ (only sharing in common being evil and german, lmao). There are a lot more similarities but that's not that important. Johan had a vision, as many Ni doms who become known do, and Ni doms can be detached in the sense that they can disengage from the real world to see the bigger picture or absolute largest scope of perception plus Ti is more detached than Te. They are not like ENFJs just because they have Fe. So Ni dom is a given, what he did with his vision had more INFJ flavoring than INTJ flavoring though, manipulating people, emotional affect, charm and favor to implement his vision whereas INTJs are usually not as good at manipulating people emotionally, which was his key thing and what scared others about him, not him moving like a chess player. You didn't really reason why he seemingly has Fe though, just saying 'but yes, in fact he truly is the mastermind', using some MBTI/Keirsey title. I think he, along with many villains, is typed as INTJ in MBTI by people because he was evil (T) and had great foresight.
Changed my mind I say INTP..I wonder what type is his apprentice.. maybe ESTP
The thing is that Hitler was a fanatic, obsessed with an ideology, while Johan isn't. The only things he has in common with Hitler are the fact he is evil and german (which is why he is often compared to him), but his temper is completely different, I find this comparison to be rather simplistic. He is more detached than an INFJ would be. He does mimic Fe (showing a very affable presence), and the way fe is commonly perceived, but yes, in fact he truly is the mastermind. <br>INFJ can be sociopathic, but often in a more ISTP-ish flavour, paradoxically. Their Fe also can be evil, but then they will rather be fanatics (the way Hitler was).
The thing about him is that you don't really get to understand his personality too well..even though the show is based on him..I think he could be INFP... INFP's are the best at manipulation believe it or not.
Wow, the whole "Evil mastermind" stereotype of INTJ. He's too emotionally manipulative to be INTJ. He has insight into emotional affect and knowing how to fuck with others' emotions so he seems like NiFe, he was like a young Hitler and many in the series said that. Not INTJ and evil sociopathic people can be NFs.
As far as I've been, I don't see any reason to type him as INFJ (NF). It might change but he seems nothing like an idealist.
With his manipulativeness, is he not INFJ?
Kind of a sociopath. I agree with INTJ.
Yes 100% INTJ